If A Virus Became the Modern-Day Titanic, What Would the Survival Hierarchy Look Like?

[seoulsearch]

She always thinks things through deeply, doesn't she.

Thanks very much, Soul, but it's probably more like my mental OCD, lol.

From the time I was a kid, people always told me I overthought everything, and I drove my Christian day and Sunday School teachers crazy!

The editing process is always what trips me up. I guess I have a mind that's a lot like a cow's stomach -- whenever I start thinking about a multi-faceted subjec, I ruminate on it for a long time, do a lot of brainstorming -- then have to set it aside for a bit until I can pray and allow the other "sections" of my brain to have a go at it as well.

My biggest challenge is always trying to pare down a topic that could easily have a ten-page introduction into something that is hopefully much more manageable (and enjoyable) to read and participate in, all within the confines of a system format.

Many thanks to those who take the time to read and/or make replies -- I am always very appreciative of what you share.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Thanks very much, Soul, but it's probably more like my mental OCD, lol.

From the time I was a kid, people always told me I overthought everything, and I drove my Christian day and Sunday School teachers crazy!

The editing process is always what trips me up. I guess I have a mind that's a lot like a cow's stomach -- whenever I start thinking about a multi-faceted subjec, I ruminate on it for a long time, do a lot of brainstorming -- then have to set it aside for a bit until I can pray and allow the other "sections" of my brain to have a go at it as well.

My biggest challenge is always trying to pare down a topic that could easily have a ten-page introduction into something that is hopefully much more manageable (and enjoyable) to read and participate in, all within the confines of a system format.

Many thanks to those who take the time to read and/or make replies -- I am always very appreciative of what you share.

I thought you were talking to yourself

 

[Lanolin]

in real life or death emergency I dont think you have very much time to think about what or who people are if you are going to save someone.
it would be the person who calls out or puts their hand up.
Of course if nobody has a phone, or a screams loud enough and nobody saw or heard them it would be hard to find help.

On the titantic, because a lot of people actually didnt know the boat was sinking until the last minute, many lives were lost. In that situation I think forewarned is forearmed.

with the current virus we knew about it months before it arrived here in nz. So there was time to prepare.

A tragedy often happens because people are ignorant, as Bible says people perish through lack of knowledge.
example. Mt Erebus disaster. every single person on board flight 909 was killed instantly when the air nz flight crashed into the mountain. apparently it was technical error, the flight path was changed without the pilots knowledge. They were on autopilot, but nobody in the manage,ent told them or checked.

emergency services had to go to antarctica to recover the bodies. They recovered as many as they could but still there were unidentified remains. Though most of the people on board were sightseers, wealthy people who could afford a day trip, some were crew, some had won a trip as a prize, others were family members. They all died the same way though.

 

[Dino246]

While I completely understand the "Titanic" analogy, the details undermine it. Many people were prevented from reaching the lifeboats, such that some lifeboats held far fewer people than they could have. The whole thing was such a flustercluck.

It's one thing to think through a what-if situation, and quite another to live through a real one, where people are selfish, irrational, panicking, and even willing to kill others just to survive. People get stupid in a crisis... or perhaps more accurately, their inherent stupidity is exposed. Triage is a beautiful thing. Get oil for your lamps now, before the crisis, and you won't worry when it comes.

 

[seoulsearch]

While I completely understand the "Titanic" analogy, the details undermine it. Many people were prevented from reaching the lifeboats, such that some lifeboats held far fewer people than they could have. The whole thing was such a flustercluck.

It's one thing to think through a what-if situation, and quite another to live through a real one, where people are selfish, irrational, panicking, and even willing to kill others just to survive. People get stupid in a crisis... or perhaps more accurately, their inherent stupidity is exposed. Triage is a beautiful thing. Get oil for your lamps now, before the crisis, and you won't worry when it comes.

Hi Dino!

I'm not in any way trying to say that today's conditions are somehow exactly parallel to something as tragic as the Titanic.

Rather, my interest for this thread is the fact that everyone (deep down in their heart) has a "hierarchy of survival." Even the most devout Christians most likely will believe that some groups/categories/people should be prioritized before others (sometimes with good cause, such as, who has the most useful skills; sometimes from personal prejudice, whatever that may be), and a crisis situation makes these divides more evident than anything else.

I'm not saying it's a perfect example, but as you mentioned people being prevented from reaching the lifeboats, who in society would be prevented from obtaining a life-saving vaccine, if it were the case? Because with every cure made available, certain ones are allowed to receive it, and certain others are prevented from access.

Non-crisis situations gives humanity somewhat of a luxury of hiding its true biases, while life and death situations rip the covers right off, and that's what I was wanting to explore in this thread.

What's left when the human heart is stripped bear? Nothing breaks it down more than when it is struggling for its own survival, or for that of their friends and loved ones.

Maybe this is part of why God allows such things to happen? Calamity seems to bring out the truth in a person's character more than any other situation.

I certainly don't have the answers. But exploring the process was what I'd hoped to do in this thread.

 

[tourist]

I went with the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th choice as I was thinking in terms of the Titanic. Still, if the vaccine supply is limited I would stick with those choices.

 

[tourist]

I was thinking about it when you posted the categories, I don’t think I can pick just 3, because I was thinking about my life and people I’ve met along the way, all the categories listed have some sort of value.

For example, my cousin was in prison for I wanna say 4 years, no he didn’t murder anyone, it’s a long story and I’ll probably post it as a testimony one day, because I do truly believe the lord has been working in my cousin’s life, and now he is married to his girlfriend after they have been dating for 6 years and are about to have their first child. I was of the impression that when situations like this happen, we need to rescue the children and women, but not saving a prisoner, like my cousin was, just doesn’t sit right with me.

Also, I would be counted as being disabled, it’s only mild asperger syndrome but it still it is a disability I have, I don’t think that’s right to throw all disabled people out, cause disability nowadays has too many categories, from physical to mental disabilities, and as I’m sitting here thinking, I appreciate this thread for making me realize everyone has value. I already knew but sometimes we need to be reminded, especially nowadays, lol. So thanks for making me think ^_^

For having Asperger's Syndrome you are very well articulate, and based on your posts, you have superb communication skills.

 

[Dino246]

Hi Dino!

I'm not in any way trying to say that today's conditions are somehow exactly parallel to something as tragic as the Titanic.

Rather, my interest for this thread is the fact that everyone (deep down in their heart) has a "hierarchy of survival." Even the most devout Christians most likely will believe that some groups/categories/people should be prioritized before others (sometimes with good cause, such as, who has the most useful skills; sometimes from personal prejudice, whatever that may be), and a crisis situation makes these divides more evident than anything else.

I'm not saying it's a perfect example, but as you mentioned people being prevented from reaching the lifeboats, who in society would be prevented from obtaining a life-saving vaccine, if it were the case? Because with every cure made available, certain ones are allowed to receive it, and certain others are prevented from access.

Non-crisis situations gives humanity somewhat of a luxury of hiding its true biases, while life and death situations rip the covers right off, and that's what I was wanting to explore in this thread.

What's left when the human heart is stripped bear? Nothing breaks it down more than when it is struggling for its own survival, or for that of their friends and loved ones.

Maybe this is part of why God allows such things to happen? Calamity seems to bring out the truth in a person's character more than any other situation.

I certainly don't have the answers. But exploring the process was what I'd hoped to do in this thread.

Well, following on with my earlier post... in any crisis where people are "triaged", people who flip out, act entitled, show their profound selfishness, or otherwise try to put themselves before others get sent to the back of the line. Actually, I'd create a special location for them far beyond the back of the line, so that they don't bother the people still in line. Anyone claiming to advocate for someone else (who is not present) can join them. Anyone being dishonest, manipulative, aggressive or violent (including verbally) at any time gets sent to the back.

Then I'd ask for volunteers to go to the back, with a hard end-time to that offer. Anyone who volunteers goes immediately to the front.

I'd leave the rest to sort themselves out, subject to the first parameters.

 

[SarahUmbreon]

For having Asperger's Syndrome you are very well articulate, and based on your posts, you have superb communication skills.

It’s only mild, I was diagnosed with Autism when I was young, my mom said I didn’t talk till I was 3 or 5 (She still has her journal she kept on me, updating it as I got older as a baby), I talked by doing sign language, but lately my mom has been telling me it is Aspergers. Probably because I’m more prone to emotional outbursts, but basically from my knowledge Autism and Aspergers are very similar.

I am very blessed that the lord only gave me mild, cause when it’s more severe people will usually have other mental disabilities on top of autism spectrum as well, like also having retardation as an example. I struggle with being social in real life, it’s hard for me to maintain friendships and I’m shy, cause I’m so strong minded and I just think people would think I’m weird/not like me. Like I remember in middle school, I think this kid was writing a paper on Walt Disney, and I went on about Walt’s first movie and how the Jungle Book was the last movie he ever made, and the kid just stared at me like I was strange, I just really get into talking about what I know and like learning.

But I know I wouldn’t want to be anything else, I like how I am, even if I struggle, I’m happy the way the Lord made me ^_^...that’s why companies like “Autism Speaks” annoy me, any company that claims they can cure autism or that autism is caused by vaccines, DO NOT deserve money.

It just occurred to me as I was finishing this post, that I have a wonderful family, I’m the middle child, so when I was born, and acted differently, my mom and dad loved me and learned how to raise an autistic child, I’m the only one in my family with a disability. It occurred to me, you hear these stories on how people give up on their children with disabilities or don’t want to raise their child that has disabilities. I know my mom said it wasn’t easy, but she and my dad kept up with me, that just really touched my heart right now.

 

[tourist]

It’s only mild, I was diagnosed with Autism when I was young, my mom said I didn’t talk till I was 3 or 5 (She still has her journal she kept on me, updating it as I got older as a baby), I talked by doing sign language, but lately my mom has been telling me it is Aspergers. Probably because I’m more prone to emotional outbursts, but basically from my knowledge Autism and Aspergers are very similar.

I am very blessed that the lord only gave me mild, cause when it’s more severe people will usually have other mental disabilities on top of autism spectrum as well, like also having retardation as an example. I struggle with being social in real life, it’s hard for me to maintain friendships and I’m shy, cause I’m so strong minded and I just think people would think I’m weird/not like me. Like I remember in middle school, I think this kid was writing a paper on Walt Disney, and I went on about Walt’s first movie and how the Jungle Book was the last movie he ever made, and the kid just stared at me like I was strange, I just really get into talking about what I know and like learning.

But I know I wouldn’t want to be anything else, I like how I am, even if I struggle, I’m happy the way the Lord made me ^_^...that’s why companies like “Autism Speaks” annoy me, any company that claims they can cure autism or that autism is caused by vaccines, DO NOT deserve money.

It just occurred to me as I was finishing this post, that I have a wonderful family, I’m the middle child, so when I was born, and acted differently, my mom and dad loved me and learned how to raise an autistic child, I’m the only one in my family with a disability. It occurred to me, you hear these stories on how people give up on their children with disabilities or don’t want to raise their child that has disabilities. I know my mom said it wasn’t easy, but she and my dad kept up with me, that just really touched my heart right now.

You have written an outstanding testimony. I appreciate your honesty and candor you portray in each of your posts. There are not many on this site that allow themselves to become a little vulnerable so as to allow the members to know the who they are and what they are about. You are absolutely accomplishing this. Very commendable.

 

[Lanolin]

I am very glad there is no 'survival heirarchy' with God, even though the Israelites were preached the gospel FIRST the gentiles are all getting the opportunity to hear it 'until the ends of the earth' and the firsf shall be last, the last shall be first. Not one person can be snatched out of Gods hands. When Hes got you, Hes got you, He doesnt go well. I think this person or that person deserves my love better. Im going to stop these people from hearing about me. There are only so many places in heaven.

Satan does the stopping. Its not of God to say He doesn't want to reach everyone. And certainly when we preach the gospel, we want everyone to hear it, in EVERY langauge. In sign language even.

Jesus went to the blind, lame and deaf FIRST to heal them so they wouldnt be left behind. He also went to children and didnt stop them from entering thr kingdom. He then went to prostiutes and tax collectors.

the wealthy, he went last. Actually the wealthy were the ones who were the LEAST receptive to the gospel, but many still wanted to enter anyway. Nicodemus had to go under cover of darkness but still wanted to hear Jesus. Only the pharisees did Jesus turn away, they showed up at John the baptist baptism but wouldnt do what was required i.e repent.

in the world though, its so obvious to anyone that people in power come first. they get VIP treatment in everything. they get all the priveliges. But Jesus kingdom is upside down. He will look at someone, worthless in many peoples eyes. He'll even go to someone not even born yet and say YOU HAVE WORTH because you are Gods creation.

 

[BrotherMike]

Thanks very much, Soul, but it's probably more like my mental OCD, lol.

From the time I was a kid, people always told me I overthought everything, and I drove my Christian day and Sunday School teachers crazy!

The editing process is always what trips me up. I guess I have a mind that's a lot like a cow's stomach -- whenever I start thinking about a multi-faceted subjec, I ruminate on it for a long time, do a lot of brainstorming -- then have to set it aside for a bit until I can pray and allow the other "sections" of my brain to have a go at it as well.

My biggest challenge is always trying to pare down a topic that could easily have a ten-page introduction into something that is hopefully much more manageable (and enjoyable) to read and participate in, all within the confines of a system format.

Many thanks to those who take the time to read and/or make replies -- I am always very appreciative of what you share.

You have a beautiful soul. Don’t stop being you. Everything you post is so thoughtful and well written. I was shocked when you said months it just goes to show how much thought you put into your writing.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

I might add that if I would see a disabled person, like someone in a wheelchair, that wants to get into the boats badly but have no strength and people are pushing them around as they try to get in, I might try my best to help that particular person get in and survive. Because the big and strong push them around. It's just something I'd personally feel led by the Spirit to respond to. But I'm not going to prioritize groups.

Your answers seem to keep changing.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Your answers seem to keep changing.

Not really. I'm not the type of person to handle that kind of decision about others with clean conscience if I survived, that would have likely made me insane and that's also something I don't want to live through. I am talking things might possibly happen as well, I don't really know how I would react. My answer only keep demonstrating that. I also said I would not decide by endorsing groups. Do you know exactly how you would react or what would you going to see to cause you to react. Plus, the situation was set unrealistically to begin with. You think people are going to be standing and waiting?

 

[GaryA]

Even the most devout Christians most likely will believe that some groups/categories/people should be prioritized before others...

As a born-again Christian - when considering such a scenario - I have often pondered the idea that - notwithstanding other factors necessary to consider in such a real-life situation - "the best thing to do" - "in the big picture" - might very well be - to save as many as possible of those you believed were lost - while allowing those you were certain were born-again to die.

 

[Lynx]

As a born-again Christian - when considering such a scenario - I have often pondered the idea that - notwithstanding other factors necessary to consider in such a real-life situation - "the best thing to do" - "in the big picture" - might very well be - to save as many as possible of those you believed were lost - while allowing those you were certain were born-again to die.

It's not as tragic as it sounds. There was a reason Peter was like, "Yipee!" when he was going to the cross.

 

[Lanolin]

You know very well as a Christian that Jesus was sent to save those who were lost...that he went and looked for that one lost sheep who went astray and not the 99 that were already saved.

Jesus himself said it isnt the healthy that need a doctor, its the sick who need one. He doesnt call the righteous, but the sinner.

He even went so far as to lose his life, to so that we may live. Thats sacrifice.

I know those flight attendant safety vids say put your own mask on before your put on somene elses. But then you ask WWJD.

its funny that barabbas got off instead of Jesus from the cruficixtion. I wonder what really became of barabbas after that.

The titanic was a tragedy. But as with all tragedies we learn a lesson. After that all passenger were required to have enough lifeboats for everyone on board. the morse messenger system became universal. And nobody was daft enough to take dangerous an iceberg strewn route across the atlantic just to get to NYC sooner.

That was until jet travel became cheaper and more mainstream. You can now get across in just three hours if you have enough money for the concorde.
Before titanic, many years ago people wouldnt even be making it across the oceans because they were dying of scurvy! nobody knew about vitamin c back then. Oh ignorance.

 

[Lynx]

I know those flight attendant safety vids say put your own mask on before your put on somene elses. But then you ask WWJD.

Jesus would put his mask on first, so he wouldn't pass out while helping somebody else with a mask. Jesus has common sense and there's a reason those safety vids tell you to put your mask on first.