If A Virus Became the Modern-Day Titanic, What Would the Survival Hierarchy Look Like?

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

This is an idea I've been working on for months, and so with thanks to @Lanolin for the nod to post it, let's go ahead and give it to try.

When the tragedy of the Titanic struck, it was in a time and era when "women and children" were supposed to be the first ones saved. However, historical accounts clearly tell us that this is not exactly what happened, as lower-class passengers were sacrificed to save spaces on the life boats for upper class members, and women and children were not always given first priority when boarding them.

Several years ago, I wrote a thread asking if the Titanic sunk in modern times, what would the social order be in which people were saved?

I think there is no other time as fitting for that inquiry as right now, especially when I read a few months back about an American politician who stated in the heat of the 2020 Pandemic, the elderly should be willing to sacrifice themselves for the future generations.

Who do you think should be first on the list to be saved? (And aren't we glad that God doesn't think the way we do.)

Let's just say, for the sake of talking, that another virus, or a wave of the current virus breaks out that is unavoidable and incurable (so it would kind of be like standing on the Titanic right as it's sinking.) Let's just say that if you don't have some kind of natural immunity to this virus, it is inevitable that you are going to become infected and die, UNLESS you are able to receive a dose of a life-saving vaccine that has a very limited availability (just as with the lifeboats on the Titanic, only a certain number could be saved.)

* Who, and which categories of people, should have the right to receive the vaccine (and therefore, a chance at living) first, and why?

* Who should be left behind, and sacrificed for the "greater good" of those who are seen as more worthy?

* Should sacrifices of those "less worthy" be voluntary -- or forced?

I'm hoping there will be a discussion about this in the threads but I created a poll as a way for people to answer honestly, but also anonymously However, I always hope that a poll will not be seen as a substitution for posting and discussion in the threads.

I've posted here in Singles because although everyone is welcome to post, I would guess that most married people would say that those who have a spouse are "more important" than those who are single (and after that, it would be divided into those who have kids and those who don't, etc.)

I am curious as to what Singles themselves think, as I have often thought that since I have no spouse or children, God could just take me at any time. And then I realize that I know part of the reason God has kept me here is for other family members, even though I don't have kids.

I know the answers will most likely be a mix of both single and married members here, but I did the best I could. As I said, the answers are anonymous and multiple choice, so you are being asked to choose the Top 3 Groups of People whom you think are most deserving/should get a life-saving treatment first.

In the old CC format, it allowed 40 different options as answers, and in a case like this, I would have used all 40 options. However, in our newly updated system, it allows for far fewer answers, so I utilized every single option that was available. I know some people may ask, "Why didn't you include this, or why did you include that?" but this was the best I could do within the confines of the system and the original idea I had sketched out.

If anyone wants to see a poll with their own different/other options but isn't sure how, I'd be happy to walk you through the process so that you can create one.

This kind of subject, morbid as it is, fascinates me, because it makes me think about the fact that emergency situations bring out the truest prides and prejudices hidden within all of us.

I'll be looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

[cinder]

What we would do if we were smart (which humanity has proven time and time again it's not) is prioritize the survival of those with much needed skills rather than based on social standing or perceived importance. So first priority is people who have the knowledge and skills to make vaccines or treat the deadly illness. Then we've got people who know how to produce food, make water safe to drink, fix vehicles, build and maintain buildings, maintain roads and communication systems, etc.

Interestingly enough, many of those who have the most money, power, and prestige in our current society (entertainers, politicians, pro athletes, etc.) would be some of the most expendable people in a crisis.

And yeah those who are raising little apprentices to learn to do that kind of work probably have an edge vs those who are single, but I'll just be glad those decisions are unlikely to ever be down to me.

 

[seoulsearch]

* One of the less-obvious questions I'm also trying to ask with this thread is, "What order would God want us to go in if we had to prioritize/triage all human life?"

* It's also very interesting when things get personal. I'm guessing that if I posted this in the Family Forum, not many married people would say that single people should be ahead of them in line for the vaccine.

But what if one of those single people was their 18-year-old daughter?

* Similarly, most people wouldn't put prison inmates very high on the social hierarchy of who should be saved first.

But what if one of those prison inmates was your younger brother, who got caught smoking joints in an illegal circumstance?

Would that have any effect as to how you would "choose" your categories?

 

[SoulWeaver]

Since I really disdain this type of hypothetical situations, while everybody argues, I'll use their distraction to take a knife and cut up all the lifeboats. I won't play that game because only satan sets such situations up that you lose whatever you do, God never does that. In this type of situations people think they won something when they make a choice but they lost. If not all can be rescued, then EVERYONE goes down, myself included. Nobody gets to be special, there wouldn't be no survival hierarchy. Everyone dies. If they kill me because they are pissed off, all the better. I don't like drowning, that's about the worst death you can have.

 

[EternalFire]

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends (John 15:13).

 

[laughingheart]

I think the categories would be different. If you were needing to build a new world then you would need people who had the skills and abilities to access water, food and create shelter. You would need the administrators to figure out the logistics setting up a workable society. Your best thinkers and people with a wealth of knowledge, doctors, nurses, vets, carpenters, farmers, survivalists, may be older or have a disability. There would need to be a balance of ages and a division of the sexes. Usefulness would need to be defined by the challenges that would be faced.
So I guess I'm doing that colouring outside of the lines. People use the term "thinking outside of the box" but I'm more like "What box?". Sorry to be no help whatsoever with the survey.

 

[Lynx]

Since I really disdain this type of hypothetical situations, while everybody argues, I'll use their distraction to take a knife and cut up all the lifeboats. I won't play that game because only satan sets such situations up that you lose whatever you do, God never does that. In this type of situations people think they won something when they make a choice but they lost. If not all can be rescued, then EVERYONE goes down, myself included. Nobody gets to be special, there wouldn't be no survival hierarchy. Everyone dies. If they kill me because they are pissed off, all the better. I don't like drowning, that's about the worst death you can have.

Cheerful!

Okay, try it as a triage doctor in a crisis. If you can't save them all in time, which ones would you choose to save while letting others die?

 

[Lynx]

This can be gamed as a Real-Time Strategy game. Lots of video games have this scenario. You have X units on the field, but you can only take Y units with you and the rest will be destroyed by the big explosion that is about to happen. Which units do you take? Do you take all the units with the biggest guns? All the units that can fly and give air support? All the howitzers that can hit targets miles away? A mix?

Of course none of those games let the individual units voice their opinion about who goes and who stays...

 

[exegete]

Questions like this are why I'm glad I'm not captain of the ship!

 

[seoulsearch]

Questions like this are why I'm glad I'm not captain of the ship!

Or the head of a family...

Someone mentioned the movie "Sophie's Choice," about a woman who is sent to a concentration camp during the Holocaust and is forced to choose which one of her children will live (but sent to a labor camp,) and which one will be gassed.

Although I've never seen the movie (but have read a few summaries,) I was thinking about it back when I was trying to piece together my original thoughts for this thread.

The thing is, we look at these situations and they seem so far away, because they're pulled from "long-ago" events in history. But I'm sure many families, especially today, are actually living out these types of situations on a daily basis. They're finding themselves facing decisions such as: "Do we pay for rent, or food, because we can't afford both this month?" "Are we going to buy groceries, or Johnny's medicine?" "Can we get Grandma her insulin, or do we buy Mary her inhalers?" And the list goes on... Which is why I think it's important to ask questions like this because it makes us realize how close they actually hit to home.

Although I admire anyone who has a family, these days I'm glad I mostly just have to fend for myself and if God says it's my time, so be it. One thing I know for sure, I would truly hate to have to decide which loved ones around me has to go without supplies that are crucial to their health.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Cheerful!

Okay, try it as a triage doctor in a crisis. If you can't save them all in time, which ones would you choose to save while letting others die?

Whoever is brought in first and is life and death emergency and can be saved, I'd treat them in the order I saw them. I'm not going to be selecting people and deciding who lives or dies on the basis of them being young or old or having kids. This is a hypothetical situation so I replied as I did, considering that it is set that you make the decision it's not even realistic. People aren't going to be civil and politely waiting for someone to decide who's living and who's dying in that situation. People would be fighting to get in so I'd just let things happen, if God wants somebody to survive they will survive. And, if I got a hold of a plank I'd share the plank with my husband.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Cheerful!

Okay, try it as a triage doctor in a crisis. If you can't save them all in time, which ones would you choose to save while letting others die?

I might add that if I would see a disabled person, like someone in a wheelchair, that wants to get into the boats badly but have no strength and people are pushing them around as they try to get in, I might try my best to help that particular person get in and survive. Because the big and strong push them around. It's just something I'd personally feel led by the Spirit to respond to. But I'm not going to prioritize groups.

 

[BrotherMike]

This is an idea I've been working on for months

 

[BrotherMike]

It looks like I am the only one who voted... I chose my three

 

[zeroturbulence]

Hey Everyone,

This is an idea I've been working on for months, and so with thanks to @Lanolin for the nod to post it, let's go ahead and give it to try.

When the tragedy of the Titanic struck, it was in a time and era when "women and children" were supposed to be the first ones saved. However, historical accounts clearly tell us that this is not exactly what happened, as lower-class passengers were sacrificed to save spaces on the life boats for upper class members, and women and children were not always given first priority when boarding them.

Several years ago, I wrote a thread asking if the Titanic sunk in modern times, what would the social order be in which people were saved?

I think there is no other time as fitting for that inquiry as right now, especially when I read a few months back about an American politician who stated in the heat of the 2020 Pandemic, the elderly should be willing to sacrifice themselves for the future generations.

Who do you think should be first on the list to be saved? (And aren't we glad that God doesn't think the way we do.)

Let's just say, for the sake of talking, that another virus, or a wave of the current virus breaks out that is unavoidable and incurable (so it would kind of be like standing on the Titanic right as it's sinking.) Let's just say that if you don't have some kind of natural immunity to this virus, it is inevitable that you are going to become infected and die, UNLESS you are able to receive a dose of a life-saving vaccine that has a very limited availability (just as with the lifeboats on the Titanic, only a certain number could be saved.)

* Who, and which categories of people, should have the right to receive the vaccine (and therefore, a chance at living) first, and why?

* Who should be left behind, and sacrificed for the "greater good" of those who are seen as more worthy?

* Should sacrifices of those "less worthy" be voluntary -- or forced?

I'm hoping there will be a discussion about this in the threads but I created a poll as a way for people to answer honestly, but also anonymously However, I always hope that a poll will not be seen as a substitution for posting and discussion in the threads.

I've posted here in Singles because although everyone is welcome to post, I would guess that most married people would say that those who have a spouse are "more important" than those who are single (and after that, it would be divided into those who have kids and those who don't, etc.)

I am curious as to what Singles themselves think, as I have often thought that since I have no spouse or children, God could just take me at any time. And then I realize that I know part of the reason God has kept me here is for other family members, even though I don't have kids.

I know the answers will most likely be a mix of both single and married members here, but I did the best I could. As I said, the answers are anonymous and multiple choice, so you are being asked to choose the Top 3 Groups of People whom you think are most deserving/should get a life-saving treatment first.

In the old CC format, it allowed 40 different options as answers, and in a case like this, I would have used all 40 options. However, in our newly updated system, it allows for far fewer answers, so I utilized every single option that was available. I know some people may ask, "Why didn't you include this, or why did you include that?" but this was the best I could do within the confines of the system and the original idea I had sketched out.

If anyone wants to see a poll with their own different/other options but isn't sure how, I'd be happy to walk you through the process so that you can create one.

This kind of subject, morbid as it is, fascinates me, because it makes me think about the fact that emergency situations bring out the truest prides and prejudices hidden within all of us.

I'll be looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Well if you consider today's standards of liberal social justice... First would be the LBGTQ crowd followed by hollywood celebrities, then feminists and climate change scientists followed by certain ethnic groups, then all men who have lost their man-card followed by illegal aliens, and last but not least... all pro-abortion activists.

 

[SoulWeaver]

She always thinks things through deeply, doesn't she. She's careful and thorough and kind.
That's why we love her.

 

[Lanolin]

Im more into prevention than ambulance at bottom of the cliff.
I would say to engineer, architect, draftsman. who was building the titanic. Make sure you have enougn lifeboats for EVERYONE on board. You are designing a passenger ship for crying out loud. safety first.

Then we wouldnt have this problem. And dont go sailing directly in iceberg bound routes.

This post made me think about how God has made enough provision for everyone. Whosoever believes....can be saved. It doesnt matter if you are single. not single, caregiving, male, female, different colours, employed, unemployed, child, elderly deaf, blind, lame whatever. You can call upon His name and be saved.

 

[exegete]

An old song, but germane to this posting...

 

[SarahUmbreon]

I was thinking about it when you posted the categories, I don’t think I can pick just 3, because I was thinking about my life and people I’ve met along the way, all the categories listed have some sort of value.

For example, my cousin was in prison for I wanna say 4 years, no he didn’t murder anyone, it’s a long story and I’ll probably post it as a testimony one day, because I do truly believe the lord has been working in my cousin’s life, and now he is married to his girlfriend after they have been dating for 6 years and are about to have their first child. I was of the impression that when situations like this happen, we need to rescue the children and women, but not saving a prisoner, like my cousin was, just doesn’t sit right with me.

Also, I would be counted as being disabled, it’s only mild asperger syndrome but it still it is a disability I have, I don’t think that’s right to throw all disabled people out, cause disability nowadays has too many categories, from physical to mental disabilities, and as I’m sitting here thinking, I appreciate this thread for making me realize everyone has value. I already knew but sometimes we need to be reminded, especially nowadays, lol. So thanks for making me think ^_^

 

[seoulsearch]

I was thinking about it when you posted the categories, I don’t think I can pick just 3, because I was thinking about my life and people I’ve met along the way, all the categories listed have some sort of value.

For example, my cousin was in prison for I wanna say 4 years, no he didn’t murder anyone, it’s a long story and I’ll probably post it as a testimony one day, because I do truly believe the lord has been working in my cousin’s life, and now he is married to his girlfriend after they have been dating for 6 years and are about to have their first child. I was of the impression that when situations like this happen, we need to rescue the children and women, but not saving a prisoner, like my cousin was, just doesn’t sit right with me.

Also, I would be counted as being disabled, it’s only mild asperger syndrome but it still it is a disability I have, I don’t think that’s right to throw all disabled people out, cause disability nowadays has too many categories, from physical to mental disabilities, and as I’m sitting here thinking, I appreciate this thread for making me realize everyone has value. I already knew but sometimes we need to be reminded, especially nowadays, lol. So thanks for making me think ^_^

Thank you so much for posting this, Sarah. These are exactly the types of thoughts I was hoping to stir up with this thread.

I was especially touched when you pointed out having Asperger's and that it would be considered part of the "disabled category." I have greatly enjoyed your threads and posts and you definitely bring a lot of positive energy to the site, which is priceless.

Thank you for also sharing about your cousin, as one of my closest friend has a similar story, and I've told him several times that one of the biggest blessings he's brought to my life is that without him, I wouldn't know that God can truly turn someone's life around.

Like anyone else, I'm guilty of lumping people into this category or that, but every now and then, God has to remind me that people are people, not just a classification.

I also love what others in the thread have said about as far as having to choose those for survival based on their skill sets, etc. This was something that was mentioned in the original thread as well -- such as, teachers being more highly valued than janitors.

I realize there are no definitive answers to questions like these. I just really appreciate the discussions and thoughts that they bring up.

Thanks to everyone for participating. I hope people will continue to feel free to share their thoughts.