By Works

[preacher4truth]

My brother, honestly I myself still not perfect and do sin, but I fell the Holy Spirit warn me not to, every time I do sin. I believe as long as we still have a sorry felling every time we do sin, Holy Spirit still in us, and we save as long as we repent every time we sin.

To be perfect like Jesus is our target, and only happen when we abide in Him, branch can not bear fruit of itself.
Jesus want us to love other like we love ourself and Jesus give example what is biblical definition of love
After I ponder what is that love?
Die on the cross for other. Can we do that kind of love of ourselves? The answer I say no, branch can not bear fruit of itself

Only people like Stephen that willing to die to love other, to preach gospel to other so they save that do biblical definition of love.

Feed the hungry is love, but some Buddhism do feed the hunger.

Jesus sacrifice HImself on the cross, that is the quality of love Jesus talking about, and it is impossible for us to do it of ourselves ( branch can not bear fruit of itself)
It is require to abide in Him, so do salvation.

Salvation by faith, mean entrust or abide in Him.

Why God drive Adam away from the Garden

God say not to eat that fruit, Satan say eat, and he trust or have faith to Satan.

Simple mistake. Not obey

See. To me faith cause obey, if a man say have a faith but not obey, he may lie, he doesn't have a faith

If a man say love God but hate his brother, he is liar

1 John 4:20

“If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?”
Seem to me Bible teach that there is correlation between love, faith and good work
Faith without work is dead.
If a man have a Faith he have love, and love mean help the needy or good work
Not mean salvation by good work, but salvation produce good work if that man have time and ability

It may a man accept Jesus and die the next second, he have love because as soon as Jesus in his heart he have love but no time to manifest.

The fruit of Holy Spirit is love.
,

A lot to deal with in the above, and thanks for the time and effort you spent in typing it out. I cannot at this time deal with every detail but wanted to address the heart of what you've stated brother.

I see the Gospel at work in you, that you see this working as a life of repentance, being sensitive to God, checking your walk and your fellowship with Christ, and obedience, and being watchful to abide in Him via your walk. Some simply do not get it in their easy-believe-ism ideology that this is the working of God and is of God.

I agree with 1 John 4:20, hating a brother is evidence of a false conversion. I feel there are some that do hate their brothers on this very site yet say they love God, which biblically is an impossibility and a self-deception. The way they further deceive themselves is to say to others or themselves about the one they hate "Well, I don't consider him saved, so I can hate him, he's not a brother!!!!" Only God can bring them out of that mess of self-deception.

 

[Rosemaryx]

How can you keep repenting, either you know it is a sin or not. This religious thinking you have to change your mind about a sin all the time is not from God, you repented when you were saved.

now confession? We should always confess of our sins, but like John said, we always have an advocate, I am not going to judge anyone who is committing any sin, as not being saved, because I have to look inside. And see my own sin (take the plank out of my eye)

we need to come side by side with our brothers and sisters. Not as their judge, that’s Gods job, but as their brother and sister, helping each other in love.
that’s why we all should be in some sort of discipleship relationship with someone in our church,

I believe repentance is part of our sanctification...
Repentance is very important in our walk with our LORD ...It is not the repentance that we had when we were saved , but a repentance of turning away from the sins in our life that we may not realise we have , and this ongoing repentance keeps us to becoming more like Christ...
...xox...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe repentance is part of our sanctification...
Repentance is very important in our walk with our LORD ...It is not the repentance that we had when we were saved , but a repentance of turning away from the sins in our life that we may not realise we have , and this ongoing repentance keeps us to becoming more like Christ...
...xox...

I see this yes. The more we mature the more sinful we realize we are as we learn what true sin is and we have to continually change our thinking amen sis

I Was more talking about individual sins that we struggle with but already acknowledge them as sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A good example

I admit that coveting is a sin yet for some reason every time a family
Member gets something new I get Helios and cover what they have

How can I repent of that sin again? I already admitted it was a sin and in the past. I did not change my thinking into believing it was ok to do and no longer a sin

So to say I Must repent if that sin again is Nonsensical. Now should I confess it? Yes to God and others so I can be healed. But as a means of securing or maintaining my salvation. That makes
My eternal life based on works not grace

 

[preacher4truth]

Just want to point out the wavering and instability here in ones teachings which are all over the place.

1) First, the lifestyle of repentance is deemed "not of God."

How can you keep repenting, either you know it is a sin or not. This religious thinking you have to change your mind about a sin all the time is not from God, you repented when you were saved.

now confession? We should always confess of our sins, but like John said, we always have an advocate, I am not going to judge anyone who is committing any sin, as not being saved, because I have to look inside. And see my own sin (take the plank out of my eye)

we need to come side by side with our brothers and sisters. Not as their judge, that’s Gods job, but as their brother and sister, helping each other in love.
that’s why we all should be in some sort of discipleship relationship with someone in our church,

2) Oh, now it IS of God.

I see this yes. The more we mature the more sinful we realize we are as we learn what true sin is and we have to continually change our thinking amen sis

I Was more talking about individual sins that we struggle with but already acknowledge them as sin.

3) And then he takes yet another turn, because now it's a "works" gospel.

A good example

I admit that coveting is a sin yet for some reason every time a family
Member gets something new I get Helios and cover what they have

How can I repent of that sin again? I already admitted it was a sin and in the past. I did not change my thinking into believing it was ok to do and no longer a sin

So to say I Must repent if that sin again is Nonsensical. Now should I confess it? Yes to God and others so I can be healed. But as a means of securing or maintaining my salvation. That makes
My eternal life based on works not grace

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just want to point out the wavering and instability here in ones teachings which are all over the place.

1) First, the lifestyle of repentance is deemed "not of God."



2) Oh, now it IS of God.



3) And then he takes yet another turn, because now it's a "works" gospel.

This is yet another reason I can no longer give this person any of my time

1. he twisted everything I said (I never said anything was of God or not of God yet here in two of his point he claims otherwise.)
2. Then he claimed I keep changing my tune, of which I did no such thing
3. he totally misunderstand what I meant about a works based gospel. If you have to repent of sin or you lose salvation, that is a works based gospel, I am sure even he agrees with this (if he does not it is worse than I thought)

the only reason I responded is I saw he gave me a thumbs down and rose gave me a thumbs up and noticed he responded,

this person is not trustworthy, and his continued taking what people say and trying to make them appear to say things they never said is just plain evil (yes I am calling you out preacher) I am also hoping to show rosemary and another sister why it is a have a problem with this person. And why I have them on ignore and have no respect for him whatsoever,

if he wants to report me, let him, He is called out,,

 

[Blue_Of_Lake]

Just want to point out the wavering and instability here in ones teachings which are all over the place.

1) First, the lifestyle of repentance is deemed "not of God."



2) Oh, now it IS of God.



3) And then he takes yet another turn, because now it's a "works" gospel.

"REPENT, for the Kingdom of Heaven is At Hand"


3This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah: “A voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for Him.’”…


prepare, make, repent ...

 

[Rosemaryx]

This is yet another reason I can no longer give this person any of my time

1. he twisted everything I said (I never said anything was of God or not of God yet here in two of his point he claims otherwise.)
2. Then he claimed I keep changing my tune, of which I did no such thing
3. he totally misunderstand what I meant about a works based gospel. If you have to repent of sin or you lose salvation, that is a works based gospel, I am sure even he agrees with this (if he does not it is worse than I thought)

the only reason I responded is I saw he gave me a thumbs down and rose gave me a thumbs up and noticed he responded,

this person is not trustworthy, and his continued taking what people say and trying to make them appear to say things they never said is just plain evil (yes I am calling you out preacher) I am also hoping to show rosemary and another sister why it is a have a problem with this person. And why I have them on ignore and have no respect for him whatsoever,

if he wants to report me, let him, He is called out,,

Repentance is required at our Salvation , but there is a repentance with a small r that is I believe required daily for known sins...
I believe from what I have read that repentance ( small r ) covers the consequences of our sins...

I have to say EG , I do not believe what you say about @preacher4truth , he is my brother in Christ , I do not want to get in the middle of what your problem is between each other , I just pray that you can both reconcile whatever it is between you both...
...xox...

 

[preacher4truth]

People need to stop making this elementary error, as is seen in the postings of @eternally-gratefull and others.

It is the error of conflating justification, the one time declaration of a sinner as righteous and the ongoing sanctification which is a lifestyle of repentance.

That the latter is called "works salvation" shows the conflation, and is the reason for the wavering back and forth ad nauseam and ad infinitum.

Some are so jaded by their antinomianism that when they hear anything like the word "works" or "sanctification" (which they relegate and mitigate to only "positional sanctification" which is heresy, note Hebrews 12:14) or "lifestyle repentance" all they can do in their black and white limited thought is falsely call it "works salvation."

If some would grow past these errors they would begin to truly understand the eternal Gospel. Unfortunately, at least one has proclaimed he's so efficient in theology he no longer need study what he believes. Ahem, I beg to differ for obvious reasons!

 

[preacher4truth]

Repentance is required at our Salvation , but there is a repentance with a small r that is I believe required daily for known sins...
I believe from what I have read that repentance ( small r ) covers the consequences of our sins...

I have to say EG , I do not believe what you say about @preacher4truth , he is my brother in Christ , I do not want to get in the middle of what your problem is between each other , I just pray that you can both reconcile whatever it is between you both...
...xox...

You're on the right road theologically, yes repentance is a lifestyle of the Christian.

Unfortunately EG has, even after calling others to behave, continued, while pleading for others to stop said behavior himself at least toward me. He has gone to the extent to shame and bully another person for merely agreeing with me or liking my posts, calling her on it publicly. He continues to take jabs at me while shaming others for their doing the same. I know what Scripture calls such behavior.

I will continue to show the wavering and errors not only of his teachings, but of his nearly daily posts directed at MY PERSON to cause division, shame others for being my friends, and for sowing discord.

I've offered reconciliation to him in the past, he has not only rejected this, he continues the things stated above.

Thank you @Rosemaryx for having my back. Several of his group make certain to go ad hominem on me here daily. I can handle it, but I literally loathe when any person who goes out publicly to shame others for being friends with a person. That and the incessant false accusations and name calling that go along with it needs to end.

 

[Blue_Of_Lake]

Just want to point out the wavering and instability here in ones teachings which are all over the place.

1) First, the lifestyle of repentance is deemed "not of God."



2) Oh, now it IS of God.



3) And then he takes yet another turn, because now it's a "works" gospel.

it may not be wavering and instability in their mind's eye ... but ... Repentance and Seeking God's Will -- Very important. Important to God. the Bible is Sooooo Much about Righteousness and Doing what is Right and Good and Holy that if You Miss that About the Bible and God, then You may Not have Heard the Bible Right, you may Not have Heard Jesus right, you Might be following a FALSE Gospel ..... not of God. God desires Righteousness... i.e. -- Right Behaviour, Right Thoughts.

 

[Chester]

People need to stop making this elementary error, as is seen in the postings of @eternally-gratefull and others.

It is the error of conflating justification, the one time declaration of a sinner as righteous and the ongoing sanctification which is a lifestyle of repentance.

That the latter is called "works salvation" shows the conflation, and is the reason for the wavering back and forth ad nauseam and ad infinitum.

Some are so jaded by their antinomianism that when they hear anything like the word "works" or "sanctification" (which they relegate and mitigate to only "positional sanctification" which is heresy, note Hebrews 12:14) or "lifestyle repentance" all they can do in their black and white limited thought is falsely call it "works salvation."

If some would grow past these errors they would begin to truly understand the eternal Gospel. Unfortunately, at least one has proclaimed he's so efficient in theology he no longer need study what he believes. Ahem, I beg to differ for obvious reasons!

What you say here about the "works salvation" accusation (thrown around a lot here on CC) is well articulated above. Much better than I could say it! (With probably some blunter wording than I might use) LOL! And I agree with you. That is a major reason I began this thread: to be able to discuss works and their critical part in being saved from a miserable life of sin and mediocrity.

I have found CC an interesting place of sharing with people from very different viewpoints; some of whom I call "friends" that I was taught growing up were "heretics" going to hell. On the other hand, there are some that seem to use CC as a revolving door to come and try to preach their particular viewpoints (often heresies). Usually, once they find people will not stand for their doctrines, they leave and stir up the dust after them! LOL!

The only people I have ever had to put on ignore were a few that sent me unsolicited personal messages that I was not interested in engaging with. That is not condemning those that use the ignore feature; I am just wondering, though, if we sometimes take things too personally. My philosophy is that the louder a person screams and reacts, the more likely their theological position is weak and indefensible. That doesn't mean the congenial mild mannered person is right -- case in point - Gary - I love the the guy but his flat-earth view is just indescribably fatiguing!

So I find it funny that EG and Preacher are having this debacle! LOL Because they are both staunch OSAS, and I am a biblical non-OSAS! (and we have had our run-ins and will continue to have them). But I basically agree with EG on free will, and I agree wholeheartedly here with Preacher's view on works.

I just cannot wait till we all sit around in heaven and have Paul explain his doctrine. I want to see EG and Preacher with their mouths hanging open from the shock!

And then after that I might rolleyes: ) have my mouth fall open when I look down and see the Earth is flat! LOL!

 

[preacher4truth]

@eternally-gratefully,

No, I've twisted nothing you've stated. Anyone can see the wavering and errors you've made in what I quoted.

The problem is that is your go to excuse out of everything you teach as if no one can understand you. You have a history of doing this, even when you're quoted word for word you deny what everyone can see is exactly what you do in fact teach.

Yet, as history shows, at least with me, you accuse of teaching things never taught, nor believed, nor even stated. Such as when you falsely accused me of believing in loss of salvation. There are other times you've converge same, accusing things I've never stated. Your track record tells me even if I quote where you've done this you'd deny the glaring truth.

Huge difference between us? I can actually QUOTE you teaching exactly what I stated.

So, yes, you can be quoted on your errors yet you pull the old baseless "twisting" excuse on others, not just on me. Not sure why you can't own it and admit it,but that's your problem.

I suppose there is a reason persons need to keep changing their stories (what they've taught.) I'm ashamed of nothing I've taught and have always taught it out in the open before all, owning my very words, 2 Corinthians 4:1-2.

 

[preacher4truth]

What you say here about the "works salvation" accusation (thrown around a lot here on CC) is well articulated above. Much better than I could say it! (With probably some blunter wording than I might use) LOL! And I agree with you. That is a major reason I began this thread: to be able to discuss works and their critical part in being saved from a miserable life of sin and mediocrity.

I have found CC an interesting place of sharing with people from very different viewpoints; some of whom I call "friends" that I was taught growing up were "heretics" going to hell. On the other hand, there are some that seem to use CC as a revolving door to come and try to preach their particular viewpoints (often heresies). Usually, once they find people will not stand for their doctrines, they leave and stir up the dust after them! LOL!

The only people I have ever had to put on ignore were a few that sent me unsolicited personal messages that I was not interested in engaging with. That is not condemning those that use the ignore feature; I am just wondering, though, if we sometimes take things too personally. My philosophy is that the louder a person screams and reacts, the more likely their theological position is weak and indefensible. That doesn't mean the congenial mild mannered person is right -- case in point - Gary - I love the the guy but his flat-earth view is just indescribably fatiguing!

So I find it funny that EG and Preacher are having this debacle! LOL Because they are both staunch OSAS, and I am a biblical non-OSAS! (and we have had our run-ins and will continue to have them). But I basically agree with EG on free will, and I agree wholeheartedly here with Preacher's view on works.

I just cannot wait till we all sit around in heaven and have Paul explain his doctrine. I want to see EG and Preacher with their mouths hanging open from the shock!

And then after that I might rolleyes: ) have my mouth fall open when I look down and see the Earth is flat! LOL!

Thank you!

Maybe people can see what I said is true and from where the error stems. Hopefully some can also see that just because you're not OSAS it doesn't necessitate that we must be enemies. I count you as a friend and brother, not an enemy.

Thanks again for your reasoned and rational response.

 

[Jackson123]

How can you keep repenting, either you know it is a sin or not. This religious thinking you have to change your mind about a sin all the time is not from God, you repented when you were saved.

now confession? We should always confess of our sins, but like John said, we always have an advocate, I am not going to judge anyone who is committing any sin, as not being saved, because I have to look inside. And see my own sin (take the plank out of my eye)

we need to come side by side with our brothers and sisters. Not as their judge, that’s Gods job, but as their brother and sister, helping each other in love.
that’s why we all should be in some sort of discipleship relationship with someone in our church,

My brother, confess mean admid. That is good start but we have to go to the next step, and that is regred an fell sorry of what we did.

Say we rob the bank, than we confess, God I robe the bank, then we do it again tomorrow,

I don't think that is what God want.

Yes we need to confess but not stop there, if we get millions from that robery and we use 1000, we have 999000 left, come to the bank give back that left over and say sorry, promise to pay another 1000 that we use as soon as we can.

One again, confess is good start, but repent must be the next step.

 

[Jackson123]

A lot to deal with in the above, and thanks for the time and effort you spent in typing it out. I cannot at this time deal with every detail but wanted to address the heart of what you've stated brother.

I see the Gospel at work in you, that you see this working as a life of repentance, being sensitive to God, checking your walk and your fellowship with Christ, and obedience, and being watchful to abide in Him via your walk. Some simply do not get it in their easy-believe-ism ideology that this is the working of God and is of God.

I agree with 1 John 4:20, hating a brother is evidence of a false conversion. I feel there are some that do hate their brothers on this very site yet say they love God, which biblically is an impossibility and a self-deception. The way they further deceive themselves is to say to others or themselves about the one they hate "Well, I don't consider him saved, so I can hate him, he's not a brother!!!!" Only God can bring them out of that mess of self-deception.

Thank for the respon, my brother, Jesus not only say love your brother, but love your enemy
Matthew 5:44

“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;”

 

[Jackson123]

A good example

I admit that coveting is a sin yet for some reason every time a family
Member gets something new I get Helios and cover what they have

How can I repent of that sin again? I already admitted it was a sin and in the past. I did not change my thinking into believing it was ok to do and no longer a sin

So to say I Must repent if that sin again is Nonsensical. Now should I confess it? Yes to God and others so I can be healed. But as a means of securing or maintaining my salvation. That makes
My eternal life based on works not grace

Coveting is a sin of most people, me too some time do the same sin as you do. And I know it is sin.
But I learn the more I think and focus of the thing that eternal the easier I deal with coveting sin.

2 Corinthians 4:18

“While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.”

Say our friend buy new car, $ 50000it nice and we covet.
Compare with eternal heaven that we have, cost more than trillion dollar why we jealous.

If we have $ billions do we jealous to person that have $ 50000?

1 john 2

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Another medicine from apostle john to cure the sin is coveting. If we not love the thing on the world, we not going to covet if our friend have nice car. Because Or pride of nice car. This verse say pride of life is not of the Father, but of the world and we don't know how long the world last?

I remember when I was child, I was covet when my friend have a new toy, I ask my dad to buy that toy. One day after 20 years, I found that toy, and I think it was stupid, why I cry for that toy? It look funny
After being adult we think what we did was funny.

That will happen when our faith growing up. We not covet earthly thing anymore.
But some time I still do

 

[preacher4truth]

My brother, confess mean admid. That is good start but we have to go to the next step, and that is regred an fell sorry of what we did.

Say we rob the bank, than we confess, God I robe the bank, then we do it again tomorrow,

I don't think that is what God want.

Yes we need to confess but not stop there, if we get millions from that robery and we use 1000, we have 999000 left, come to the bank give back that left over and say sorry, promise to pay another 1000 that we use as soon as we can.

One again, confess is good start, but repent must be the next step.

You talk a lot about robbing banks. Are you planning a bank robbery?

I know you're not, just messing with you brother! 👍

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Repentance is required at our Salvation , but there is a repentance with a small r that is I believe required daily for known sins...
I believe from what I have read that repentance ( small r ) covers the consequences of our sins...

I have to say EG , I do not believe what you say about @preacher4truth , he is my brother in Christ , I do not want to get in the middle of what your problem is between each other , I just pray that you can both reconcile whatever it is between you both...
...xox...

I did not want you to get in the middle sis I just wanted to expose what he did. I am sorry you can not see how he twisted My words
But what he did was wrong and as long as he continues there will be no reconciliation He continues to do it with no repentance himself and then preaches repentance. To me that makes him a hypocrite.

DC and others are my brothers and sisters to And I Love them but when someone does wrong I think we have an obligation as fellow believers to point that out and not let them to
Continue out of love

Of course if anyone can show me how he did not add those words to my post and twisted what I meant about works salvation I will repent myself

I agree with you about repentance As usual we are in full Agreement

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You're on the right road theologically, yes repentance is a lifestyle of the Christian.

Unfortunately EG has, even after calling others to behave, continued, while pleading for others to stop said behavior himself at least toward me. He has gone to the extent to shame and bully another person for merely agreeing with me or liking my posts, calling her on it publicly. He continues to take jabs at me while shaming others for their doing the same. I know what Scripture calls such behavior.

I will continue to show the wavering and errors not only of his teachings, but of his nearly daily posts directed at MY PERSON to cause division, shame others for being my friends, and for sowing discord.

I've offered reconciliation to him in the past, he has not only rejected this, he continues the things stated above.

Thank you @Rosemaryx for having my back. Several of his group make certain to go ad hominem on me here daily. I can handle it, but I literally loathe when any person who goes out publicly to shame others for being friends with a person. That and the incessant false accusations and name calling that go along with it needs to end.

She did not prove you were correct and again you refuse to acknowledge when you have done wrong

You think you know what I believe yet you continually prove you do not

I did not change my view the discussion was about a person who is committing particular sins. And I stand my what I said it did Not Change

The part about learning about new sins as rose spoke of is a different topic and I agreed with her

I put you on ignore yet you keep
Butting into My conversations and misrepresenting what I said

I did It mention any of the things you accused me of Thus you in fact twisted my words

Do I affect your life that Much you can not stop your nonsense? I mean really You already stated you wanted to
Come to Columbus and settle this with fists. So what have I done that has made you so angry? I ignore you ask you to do the same. But you can’t help yourself. You know I have you on ignore yet you have to continue to Misrepresent me?

Dude you have serious issues. Your pride is so deep you can not even stop when you should you scream at DC and others yet you do the very things you accuse them of and have since I have known you

Once again. Do Not respond to Me about
Me or For me. You have utterly no comprehension of what I believe and you prove it ever time You respond to me or write a post About me. Why can’t you be like grandpa. We disagree but do you see ya false accusing each other and ripping each other apart? You would do well. As would others to take an example from him

Either way. One more Time. Put me on ignore. I Am sick of your Nonsense