By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

@preacher4truth does a fantastic job showing why he believes predestination is true and why we don't decide our eternal fates.

Why don't you believe him?

Because what he says does not line up with the word of God In my view, unless I use the word and try to make it say something it does not say (like romans 9)

because it does not make sense, it has one made alive while still in sin

and it destroys Gods character (in my view) of being an all merciful all loving a God.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

because it does not make sense, it has one made alive while still in sin

and it destroys Gods character (in my view) of being an all merciful all loving a God.

And he would probably say something similar to what you said to me:

"i do not even Know what to say other than I doubt there is anything anyone can tell you to help you see"

What I say in this forum is what is in scripture.

The difference is, I do not bring in men's tradition and imagination to artificially change the meaning of scripture or force scripture into a one dimensional teaching instrument.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And he would probably say something similar to what you said to me:

"i do not even Know what to say other than I doubt there is anything anyone can tell you to help you see"

What I say in this forum is what is in scripture.

The difference is, I do not bring in men's tradition and imagination to artificially change the meaning of scripture or force scripture into a one dimensional teaching instrument.

yeah he would

but what he poses is not dangerous

what you pose is

you say what you THINK scripture says, and then claim it is true, in that you are no better than him

thats why there can be no conversation

preacher had a few years to convince me he never did unlike grandpa And pen Ed he could not agree to disagree

you discuss by giving your views. You may learn from a different view, or not be convinced. Then you agree you can not come to an agreement and walk away

when you say you have truth and the other does not and use the “I teach the word” strawman you cut off communication and make yourself look bad,

 

[Jackson123]

Repent does not mean feel sorry

i do not know a believer who does not regret any sin they committed

if you do not feel regret or feel gods chastening I would wonder f they were truly saved. But I would never judge them that’s Gods job

I do agree that if believer commit sin, he fell regret. And Holy Spirit tell him to repent, but I do believe if he ignore and keep doing the same sin, there is a time when he being cut.

That is bible teaching. If a tree not bear fruit. He will wait but there is a time when He decide to cut the tree and burn
Matt 7
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[preacher4truth]

And he would probably say something similar to what you said to me:

"i do not even Know what to say other than I doubt there is anything anyone can tell you to help you see"

What I say in this forum is what is in scripture.

The difference is, I do not bring in men's tradition and imagination to artificially change the meaning of scripture or force scripture into a one dimensional teaching instrument.

Most everyone on this forum says what is in Scripture, but it comes down to not what Scripture says, but what does it mean, in context, by its original intent, who was being addressed, why they are addressed, comparing Scripture with Scripture (2 Timothy 2:15) the contemporaneous individuals, background &c.

This is where you fail, you know what a few verses say here and there, but you do not know what they mean. You do bring in men's tradition; your own.

You in fact do sin daily. In fact you sin on this site.

When or if Christ grants you a true encounter, which is completely up to the Father and He, Matthew 11:25-30, you will then see the truth. As of now you're in bondage to the lie of sinless perfection being self-deceived, 1 John 1:8, and are described in Luke 18:9-14 as self righteously looking down upon others while glorying in yourself by comparing self against them, 2 Corinthians 10:12 which is foolishly being unwise.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do agree that if believer commit sin, he fell regret. And Holy Spirit tell him to repent, but I do believe if he ignore and keep doing the same sin, there is a time when he being cut.

That is bible teaching. If a tree not bear fruit. He will wait but there is a time when He decide to cut the tree and burn
Matt 7
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Then he must earn salvation by making sure he does not fail which means he is not saved by grace but works

 

[Bbrdrd]

Most everyone on this forum says what is in Scripture, but it comes down to not what Scripture says, but what does it mean, in context, by its original intent, who was being addressed, why they are addressed, comparing Scripture with Scripture (2 Timothy 2:15) the contemporaneous individuals, background &c.

This is where you fail, you know what a few verses say here and there, but you do not know what they mean. You do bring in men's tradition; your own.

You in fact do sin daily. In fact you sin on this site.

When or if Christ grants you a true encounter, which is completely up to the Father and He, Matthew 11:25-30, you will then see the truth. As of now you're in bondage to the lie of sinless perfection being self-deceived, 1 John 1:8, and are described in Luke 18:9-14 as self righteously looking down upon others while glorying in yourself by comparing self against them, 2 Corinthians 10:12 which is foolishly being unwise.

There's a pretty big irony in this post with your interjection of 2 Timothy 2:15. I know the common reading of it is that it's talking about interpreting Scripture, but the context is given by the verse before which is in delivering Scripture.

So right there you're using an out- of-context snippet in a way other than the context presents it to make an argument. Granted, its not a huge leap as it does take proper interpretation to know how to cut it straight but something tells me even when you read it in context you read it with the modern overlay of interpretation rather than being in the context of presentation.

 

[preacher4truth]

There's a pretty big irony in this post with your interjection of 2 Timothy 2:15. I know the common reading of it is that it's talking about interpreting Scripture, but the context is given by the verse before which is in delivering Scripture.

So right there you're using an out- of-context snippet in a way other than the context presents it to make an argument. Granted, its not a huge leap as it does take proper interpretation to know how to cut it straight but something tells me even when you read it in context you read it with the modern overlay of interpretation rather than being in the context of presentation.

Lol!!! Wow!! Talk about missing the forest for the trees in 2 Timothy 2:15, you've done just that.

Of course interpreting them and delivering them are in the same context, as that is what it is all about.

Your attempt to get a dig on me over that is silly, asinine and callow, I've said nothing to the contrary to its entire context.

You're going to have to try much harder, my friend, as you're incorrect, you've made nothing into a molehill but try to make it a mountain, then make pretense that isn't what you're doing. In other words you're the one making the "huge leap."

Yes, you are going to have to try much harder, you've failed in your latest attempt trying to find something to point your finger at and fight over when there is nothing there.

 

[peldom10]

Most everyone on this forum says what is in Scripture, but it comes down to not what Scripture says, but what does it mean, in context, by its original intent, who was being addressed, why they are addressed, comparing Scripture with Scripture (2 Timothy 2:15) the contemporaneous individuals, background &c.

This is where you fail, you know what a few verses say here and there, but you do not know what they mean. You do bring in men's tradition; your own.

You in fact do sin daily. In fact you sin on this site.

When or if Christ grants you a true encounter, which is completely up to the Father and He, Matthew 11:25-30, you will then see the truth. As of now you're in bondage to the lie of sinless perfection being self-deceived, 1 John 1:8, and are described in Luke 18:9-14 as self righteously looking down upon others while glorying in yourself by comparing self against them, 2 Corinthians 10:12 which is foolishly being unwise.

What is discouraging is straight and clear commandments are now subject to revision by the .....new age religion types....
Know your Bible or your beliefs will violate scriptures re; no changes....and you will be a victim of a end time prophecy...."in the end times great deceptions will be..."

 

[Bbrdrd]

Lol!!! Wow!! Talk about missing the forest for the trees in 2 Timothy 2:15, you've done just that.

Of course interpreting them and delivering them are in the same context, as that is what it is all about.

Your attempt to get a dig on me over that is silly, asinine and callow, I've said nothing to the contrary to its entire context.

You're going to have to try much harder, my friend, as you're incorrect, you've made nothing into a molehill but try to make it a mountain, then make pretense that isn't what you're doing. In other words you're the one making the "huge leap."

Yes, you are going to have to try much harder, you've failed in your latest attempt trying to find something to point your finger at and fight over when there is nothing there.

I wasn't attempting to get a dig at you, it's nothing personal. It's simply that you're using 2 Timothy 2:15 to speak of the interpretive act when interpretation is not in mind given the context is the delivery of Scripture to challenge false doctrine. Timothy was trained in appropriate doctrine from Paul directly so that the primary concern is application.

The fact that you think I was trying to get a "dig" in you when I was pointing out an irony in the common usage of that passage demonstrates a bit of narcissism on your part.

Context limits the meaning, and you've extended the meaning, though as I said it is not wholly unreasonable just a demonstration of how modern contexts tend to slip into interpretation unless they are directly resisted.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Most everyone on this forum says what is in Scripture, but it comes down to not what Scripture says, but what does it mean, in context, by its original intent, who was being addressed, why they are addressed, comparing Scripture with Scripture (2 Timothy 2:15) the contemporaneous individuals, background &c.

The perfect recipe for cult control.

This is what is going on in churches today.

You must be part of the world religion system.

I can hear the cult leaders voice in your statement:

"Don't pay attention to those words in the Bible: pay attention to ME; I know what it means in context. Another man taught me."

Yeah, the serpent was giving Eve some contextual help as well...

What a farce!

 

[Jackson123]

Then he must earn salvation by making sure he does not fail which means he is not saved by grace but works

Seem to me you not agree with Jesus


John 15:6

King James Version


6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Read full chapter

Grace because you never able to bear fruit of yourselves, but if you abide in Him He grace you salvation

We not deserve salvation but Jesus offer salvation by faith, that is grace.

Grace doesn't mean you can do what ever you want and still go to heaven.

Adam wasn't make the garden, God did, by grace Adam live in the garden for free, that is grace, but it doesn't mean he can do what ever he want, he have to obey to maintain god grace.

So do us, save by grace but need to obey Him, not deny Him, carry the cross, love Him. If you hate Him, the grace no longer valid.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Seem to me you not agree with Jesus


John 15:6

King James Version


6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Read full chapter

Grace because you never able to bear fruit of yourselves, but if you abide in Him He grace you salvation

We not deserve salvation but Jesus offer salvation by faith, that is grace.

Grace doesn't mean you can do what ever you want and still go to heaven.

Adam wasn't make the garden, God did, by grace Adam live in the garden for free, that is grace, but it doesn't mean he can do what ever he want, he have to obey to maintain god grace.

So do us, save by grace but need to obey Him, not deny Him, carry the cross, love Him. If you hate Him, the grace no longer valid.

No one can bear fruit unless they abide in the vine

bearing fruit is not saving yourself it is producing the fruit which you were created to produce

if your not producing fruit, jesus says you are lifted up and pruned so you can bear fruit. (This is done by the chastening and teaching of God)

paul said that he who began a good work in us will complete it.

I trust both Jesus and Paul, I have been lifted up and pruned myself I am still a work in progress, but I know and believe he who began that work in me will complete it. Because I trust God to keep his promise. That’s what keeps me looking forward, when I lose faith in that and look back, that is when I put myself Right where satan wants me, and he whispers and tells me of all my sin and how unworthy I am, and if I stay away to long I start to believe it, that’s the danger of legalism, if I believe I am unworthy and listen to the lies. I not only will NT be bearing fruit, I will be useless in the war against satan and being used by God to Help rescue people From sstand kingdom, and help disciple fellow brethren.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is discouraging is straight and clear commandments are now subject to revision by the .....new age religion types....
Know your Bible or your beliefs will violate scriptures re; no changes....and you will be a victim of a end time prophecy...."in the end times great deceptions will be..."

No one is revising anything as far as I can see

we are putting them where they belong, as a result of being born again, Not as a means of maintaining or keeping or earning that salvation

 

[Jackson123]

if your not producing fruit, jesus says you are lifted up and pruned so you can bear fruit. (This is done by the chastening and teaching of God)

My brother we are not God and can not change the word.

The word say if you bear fruit pruned

Not bear fruit take away

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

To danger change the word my brother, we are not God.

Jesus explained more detail in verse 6

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Not abide in Jesus ..cast them into fire

I am a sinner, but I don't want to change the word. I understand as a human we expect go to heaven and still doing sin, what ever we do, bear fruit or not, love God or hate God we go to heaven. But that doesn't mean we able to change the Word.


2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My brother we are not God and can not change the word.

The word say if you bear fruit pruned

Not bear fruit take away

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

To danger change the word my brother, we are not God.

Jesus explained more detail in verse 6

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Not abide in Jesus ..cast them into fire

I am a sinner, but I don't want to change the word. I understand as a human we expect go to heaven and still doing sin, what ever we do, bear fruit or not, love God or hate God we go to heaven. But that doesn't mean we able to change the Word.


2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

My brother sometimes it is best to look up the Greek when you have a passage that seems to contradict other passages

The word “take away” comes from the Greek word “Airei” Which means to lift up, to raise, to lift

Then study what plantation keepers do to their branches that are not producing fruit. They are lifted up or raised up and some are pruned so the bad parts if the branch are cut iff and the Rest of the branch Can again produce fruit

 

[Micaiah-imla]

My brother sometimes it is best to look up the Greek when you have a passage that seems to contradict other passages

The word “take away” comes from the Greek word “Airei” Which means to lift up, to raise, to lift

Astonishing.

I wonder if you look up the “greek” on all the passages that seem to fit into your flesh pleasing doctrine.

Probably not so much would be my guess.

The abuse of scripture by private Greek interpretations is sickening.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

we are putting them where they belong

According to who?

You’re actually unstable in the faith and twist the scriptures because you are spiritually ignorant (2 Peter 3:16).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Astonishing.

I wonder if you look up the “greek” on all the passages that seem to fit into your flesh pleasing doctrine.

Probably not so much would be my guess.

The abuse of scripture by private Greek interpretations is sickening.

Private Greek?

lol ok whatever. If you do not want to see what was actually written that’s on you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

According to who?

You’re actually unstable in the faith and twist the scriptures because you are spiritually ignorant (2 Peter 3:16).

And your on ignore. When your ready to actually have a discussion let me know