Not By Works

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BillG

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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Fastfredy0 said:
Fastfredy0 said:
If we do nothing to be saved, then why are some saved and not others?
What's your thoughts on this?

If we do nothing for salvation
.....then there is another cause or causes determining whom is saved or not.

Work is defined as effort to achieve a purpose...something else is extending effort to achieve a purpose. That purpose is to save some only or the power to save is limited
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Sorry still don't get what you are saying trying to convey.

Here is my take on it.

We can do nothing to be saved other than repent of the sin of unbelief in Jesus.
The sin that Jesus said the Holy Spirit would come to convict us off.

Depending on what Bible one reads then faith could or not be a work

John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” (NKJV)

John 6:29
29 Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”(NLT)

So it seems to me the cause of salvation is by faith alone and nothing else.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
 
BillG

BillG

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Fastfredy0 said:
It was a hypothetical illustration..so I would ignore it
Click to expand...
That's why I asked the question just to check.

Do you think the Bible addresses the hypothetical?

I don't think we have corresponded before.

Hello my name is Bill.
 
B

biker

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EleventhHour said:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:15-17


For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 10:17


29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
John 20:26
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Do you think Satan believes in God?
He only sinned a few times himself.
Is he going to spend Eternity BURNING?

Yes, we Believe!
What if we choose to stop Believing?
What if we sin so much and refuse to Repent?

If as SINNERS, our father is SATAN, how is it if we choose to sin and not believe, we are any different than SATAN?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
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#145,224
BillG said:
That's why I asked the question just to check.

Do you think the Bible addresses the hypothetical?

I don't think we have corresponded before.

Hello my name is Bill.
Click to expand...
The one who was saved and the one who was not saved reacted in different ways.

It is used to try to prove a point that one can be saved without doing any work.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
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#145,225
biker said:
Do you think Satan believes in God?
He only sinned a few times himself.
Is he going to spend Eternity BURNING?

Yes, we Believe!
What if we choose to stop Believing?
What if we sin so much and refuse to Repent?

If as SINNERS, our father is SATAN, how is it if we choose to sin and not believe, we are any different than SATAN?
Click to expand...
So satan trusts God? Since when?
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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biker said:
Do you think Satan believes in God?
He only sinned a few times himself.
Is he going to spend Eternity BURNING?

Yes, we Believe!
What if we choose to stop Believing?
What if we sin so much and refuse to Repent?

If as SINNERS, our father is SATAN, how is it if we choose to sin and not believe, we are any different than SATAN?
Click to expand...
If Satan believed in God, would he have rebelled against Him?

It is prudent to make a distinction between knowing/believing God exists, and actually having faith in Him.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
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#145,229
The word believe there should not be taken as in the English way we think

The word actually means to have faith. To trust. To be convinced of something that is true

Remember the english language is flawed.

You do not say Satan faithed in jesus.. your stuck with a word that has a far reaching definition.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
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#145,230
BillG said:
Not sure I read it that way
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Maybe because I have not made my point yet? I am waiting to see if someone can figure out what the difference was on their own..
 
B

biker

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Magenta said:
If Satan believed in God, would he have rebelled against Him?

It is prudent to make a distinction between knowing/believing God exists, and actually having faith in Him.
Click to expand...



He does Believe in God or the Demons would not fear God.
 
B

biker

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BTW, I am not saying Satan has faith in God for Salvation. I believe he was made for a specific Reason. He had no choice but to be vain in how elaborate and beautiful God made him. Yes, he did choose, but he was also given a much better hand and deal above the other Angels. And since we understand and know predestination is a fact, we know Satan was created for the purpose he fulfills right this very moment.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
 
B

biker

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But we are more like Satan naturally than we are like God. We are only in the likeness and image. So, we can CHOOSE and have the power to CHOOSE either way. God would not have said to the Jews, Satan is your FATHER, had not us human beings been designed more like Satan in our sinful nature.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
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#145,236
biker said:
Do you think Satan believes in God?
He only sinned a few times himself.
Is he going to spend Eternity BURNING?

Yes, we Believe!
What if we choose to stop Believing?
What if we sin so much and refuse to Repent?

If as SINNERS, our father is SATAN, how is it if we choose to sin and not believe, we are any different than SATAN?
Click to expand...

Christ Jesus if the object of our belief .... It is IN WHOM we have believed that makes our believing non meritorious and keeps our salvation secure.

To state we can stop believing is stating we can take Christ Jesus out of salvation ...It cannot happen.

It is God who Promises us.......NOT We who Promise Him!
 
B

biker

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mailmandan said:
In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
Click to expand...

They did not recognize Him is probably a better way of saying it. Because they know Who their Maker is. They just did not see Jesus as the WORD, Who was their Maker.

He hid Himself! He made Himself lower than the Angels, which was us, a human.
 
B

biker

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EleventhHour said:
Christ Jesus if the object of our belief .... It is IN WHOM we have believed that makes our believing non meritorious and keeps our salvation secure.

To state we can stop believing is stating we can take Christ Jesus out of salvation ...It cannot happen.

It is God who Promises us.......NOT We who Promise Him!
Click to expand...


Agree 100%

Just was using the word Believe, because in the Ancient Greek, there are literally 7 possible meanings.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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biker said:
He does Believe in God or the Demons would not fear God.
Click to expand...
Do you see no difference between a belief that fears for their own demise, and one hat trusts to attain life ever after?

I see your post above. Good to know you do make a distinction between mere belief and faith :)

But the angels did have a choice. Satan's sin was one of pride, the same one he led Adam and Eve into.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how
art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above
the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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#145,240
Magenta said:
One must accept the offer of salvation, for not doing so leads to death :)
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thats sort of it

It seems I need to move it on..

The one who was saved did nothing. That's what saved him.

why would this be true?
 
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