This statement does not explain the WHY one is saved. Specifically, you haven't shown here that faith is via FREE WILL or God's selecting whom would be saved.
John 6:44 No man comes unto me, except the Father which has sent me draw (1) to draw, drag off 2) metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel] him., he infers it to be an incontrovertible fact, that the hearts of believers are so effectually governed from above, that they follow with undeviating affection.
The Lord draws men by their own wills; wills, however, which he himself has produced - viz. that the grace offered by the Lord is not merely one which every individual has full liberty of choosing to receive or reject, but a grace which produces in the heart both choice and will: so that all the good works which follow after are its fruit and effect; the only will which yields obedience being the will which grace itself has made.
Arminians would say the Spirit's work of conviction is the same both in the converted and in unconverted, that which distinguishes the one class from the other is that the former yielded to His strivings whereas the latter resist them. But if this were the case then the Christian would have ground for boasting and self-glorying over his cooperation with the Spirit; but this would flatly contradict Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
I am not Arminian so please from now one speak to me. Not to what a group of other people believe.
Yes god does drag. He drug Judas and in the end Judas said no
The order of salvation is a logical order, not a chronological order. Perhaps that is the issue. I don't see this order being a deciding issue for either of us unless one can find scripture to backup the order. I believe I can do so as follows:
1 John 5:1 "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born [regenerated] of God" ...The verb tense make's John's intention unmistakable: Everyone who goes on believing [present, continuous action] that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God [perfect, completed action with abiding effects]. " Faith is the evidence of new birth, not the cause of it." “has been born” is a passive verb; they are caused to be born by another, that being God. Some Arminian exegetes might object to this interpretation. A means of testing the consistency of the exegesis offered of this passage would be to ask how such a person interprets these words: 1 John 2:29 If you know that he is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness has been fathered by him. Every consistent Protestant would say, “the reason one practices righteousness is because they have already been born of Him.
Let’s try to Look logically
1. the penalty of sin is death (Rom 6). Which means as long as a person is unjustified or guilty of sin, they are dead.
2. to be freed from the wage of sin is to be justified, or declaired innocent of all sin or to be declaired rightious, in the justice system, this is to be acquired,
3. all through scripture we read we are justified by faith, (Rom 3:28, romans 4 romans 5:1 as just a few,) that we are justified by the blood or redemption (romans 5: 9) and that ultimately we are justified as a gift through grace (Rom 3:24 with titus 3: 7)
4 so since the penalty of sin is death, the penalty must be removed before the gift of life can be granted, otherwise, your still dead.
you can spin it, twist it all you want, the fact is, you have a dead man who is dead on account of his sin, being made alive before his sins are forgiven. This is just flat out wrong
Shouldn't the verse read: Many are called, few are chosen chose (sorry, couldn't resist... minor cheap shot)
whats sad is I come to expect that from many calvinistic people. It must be the way you are brought up? You can’t have a normal open conversation with others unless you can make some cheap shots, yet I know others do it to, it’s sad when anyone does it, and I think it is unchristlike
No need ... the examples were to ensure we have a common understanding of the FAITH aspect of salvation. I believe God changes our heart so we believe and you believe you are given a choice and that it is up to you to believe.
see once again you make a remark that is not true, will you ever stop assuming and making these reasonings you think are true without asking first?
i believe god changed my heart, and because of this, I was able to make a decision to say yes lord, or no lord.
Aside1: I think you are a nice Christian guy with whom I disagree
Aside2: Despite your comment saying I do not answer your questions, I think I have done so for the most part.
Aside3: Our debate, in my opinion, has been civil .. thank you
Question:
Definition of work: activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.
Given: You believe that you of your own free will must believe (mental effort) to be saved (to achieve a result)
Question: How do you explain that you do NO WORK in order to be saved??????
