"Not by works" - false!

[jackrosie]

So then by looking at people's works we are able to say whether they are Christians or not? Too many bad deeds (or only one?) means that you are a not believer (or were never one to start with). Is this how you believe?

No,i am not able to say by their works whether they are saved......only God knows.

To commit a murder is unthinkable in my spirit let alone carry one out.

If someone murdered unless because of war....I would question if they were saved...that is my belief..

 

[Micaiah-imla]

.once he takes up residence in your heart.

He dwells in your heart by faith, not by force.

Ephesians 3:17
[17] That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith

If you lose faith, how can he continue to dwell in your heart?

This is why we are exhorted to continue in the faith grounded and settled (Colossians 1:23) and not lose our faith (Luke 22:32).

OSAS says it’s impossible to lose your faith, contrary to scripture. Faith and salvation are tied together.

 

[jackrosie]

I am saved by grace, kept by grace and ultimately glorified by grace. God is at the center of it all. He works in me to will and to act according to His good purpose and He will complete the work that He begun in me.
If I confess my sins He is faithful and just to forgive me and purify me from all unrighteousness. He will never leave me nor forsake me and northing can separate me from the love of God.

No doctrine, just the word of God giving me joy and complete assurance.

Beautiful!......Amen!

 

[jackrosie]

He dwells in your heart by faith, not by force.

Ephesians 3:17
[17] That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith

If you lose faith, how can he continue to dwell in your heart?

This is why we are exhorted to continue in the faith grounded and settled (Colossians 1:23) and not lose our faith (Luke 22:32).

OSAS says it’s impossible to lose your faith, contrary to scripture. Faith and salvation are tied together.

Once again...a born again can never lose faith....did you read the scripture I posted?...I will post it again.

 

[jackrosie]

John:27.

My sheep listen to my voice;I know them,and they follow me.
I give them eternal life,and they shall never perish;no one can snatch them out of my hand.
My Father who has given them to me,is greater than all,no one can snatch them out of my Fathers hand.
I and the Father are one.

 

[Judges1318]

Amen

Completed actions

"7so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life." - Titus 3:7

'Might become' is a subjunctive verb. It means the action (becoming an heir) may or may not occur depending on circumstances.

You can verify what I'm saying here: https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/tit/3/7/t_conc_1132007

Justification is the sure thing that has occurred (you can also confirm that in the link I provided). What is not sure is the justified person becoming an heir. You must continue to believe to the very end for that to happen.

 

[jackrosie]

Are you at this moment believing and trusting in Christ?
Does your life reflect a life of belief and trust in Christ?
If, yes, then you can know with certainty that you presently possess Christ's everlasting life.

No, God is keeping me believing in Him.....what do we have the Holy Spirit for?

He is our helper....why does he reside in our spirit?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

“My sheep listen to my voice”

OSAS’ers cannot hear the voice of scripture and routinely use the scripture that has the condition of hearing his voice as a proof text.

Amazing.

 

[Judges1318]

How is it eternal when it is a present assurance?

The life you receive is eternal, not the assurance that you will always possess it, no matter what, up to the day you die.
You won't eternally possess Christ's life that is eternal until you pass from this life.
Then nothing can ever remove you from the kingdom.
That is the hope that we look and long for.

I am presently assured but I may not be assured in the future. That for me creates a sense of doubt and places a lot of pressure on me.

You only need to be concerned about it to the extent that Paul talks about that:

"20 ...you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off." - Romans 11: 20-22

Keep relying on God to encourage and strengthen your faith. Only with God's help and encouragement can you or I keep believing.

What are the sins that can make me loose the Faith?

What sins can make you lose the Faith? The sins you commit in unbelief.

But all sins committed by the BELIEVER are graciously covered and removed by the blood of Christ they believe in. The blood of Christ prevents the believer's sins from separating them from him. That's why we should continue to believe in him:

"14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, f Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess." - Hebrews 4:14


.

 

[Judges1318]

OSAS’ers cannot hear the voice of scripture...

That's what indoctrination does. They literally cause a person to not see the plain words of scripture right under their noses. I like to use the church's teaching about tithing to prove the point. But even then it's an uphill battle to get them to realize they can in fact be looking right past scripture because of an erroneous teaching they have received.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Wow, he said that?

he improved his grace?

i do not know what to say

Re: Spurgeon prayer...
The prayer was satirical, not didactic. Spurgeon was mimicking what he thought an Arminian would pray if he was to be consistent with his doctrine.
Surgeon was a Calvinist.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Do you believe that God chooses some to be saved and leaves others to go and burn in hell?
Do you believe that Jesus only died for those whom God has chosen according to His sovereign will?

Yes and Yes.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

...or when the heat of persecution and trouble drives you away to unbelief:

"They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away." - Luke 8:13

"When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." - Matthew 13:21

That has nothing to do with God becoming untrustworthy.

Yeah so because we are scared and claim we no longer believe God will send us to hell

Your God is weak in my view

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hitler claimed he was christian!

And? That means he was?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But since you believe in the general concept of osas you will not be challenged about the necessity to keep believing.

If it’s necessary then we save ourselves by continuing to believe

Which he makes it a works based gospel

Which means our only security is in self and our continued faith

Sorry you can not see this

 

[Judges1318]

Yeah so because we are scared and claim we no longer believe God will send us to hell

Your God is weak in my view

If you really don't believe in God you will indeed go to hell.
Why is this even in doubt?
25 years ago this was not even in debate.
Freegrace doctrine is responsible for bringing this ear tickling doctrine into the church that says even your unbelief won't cause you to lose your salvation.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

And? That means he was?

You will know them by their fruit... enough said

 

[Judges1318]

If it’s necessary then we save ourselves by continuing to believe

Which he makes it a works based gospel

Show me the verse that says believing in Christ is a work of the 'works' gospel, and I will show you where it says it is not. Deal?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, @mailmandan , are you going to step up to the plate and correct him about this? I know you're not strict Calvy, but I'd appreciate it if you'd step in here and defend your beliefs that the true believer must keep believing or he's not really a true believer, and that the true believer does not live in sin.

Yeah @mailmandan correct lol

Judges. One again you just prove you do not understand our views

 

[Judges1318]

Which means our only security is in self and our continued faith

No, the security of salvation is in the perfect work and ministry of Christ. Our faith is merely the way that we access the security of Christ's work.