Not By Works

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tantalon

Active member
Oct 11, 2019
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The reason for all the confusion is while Jesus was yet alive, the preparation for salvation was, "REPENT for the Kingdom of Heaven is near". That was the Gospel, or good news, that the disciples preached BEFORE Jesus' passion and resurrection. AFTER the resurrection, The Gospel ,in it's fullness, was," believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved". Mixing these two events, (before the resurrection, and afterward), is the source of the confusion.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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Here is an abandoned Old Style Church, currently on my PC wallpaper. Can you imagine the echo in the church when the Choir sang ?

1590506970270.png
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
You dodged the question at hand. You said they knew what it meant. Did the disciples go around preaching the d,b,r for sins? Yes or no? Could the message they preached prior to the cross save anyone today?
There was only one Gospel... not two offers.

It is up to you to prove there were two separate offers or Gospels.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
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There was only one Gospel... not two offers.

It is up to you to prove there were two separate offers or Gospels.
I have through Scripture, but you refuse to see it. Why hasn't the end come? If the gospel of the kingdom is the same as the gospel of grace, the end should have come and the Lord should have returned in all His glory. That's the context of Matthew 24.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
113
There was only one Gospel... not two offers.

It is up to you to prove there were two separate offers or Gospels.
And you never answered the question, can someone get saved today by preaching the message the disciples preached before the cross? "The kingdom of heaven is at hand"
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
And you never answered the question, can someone get saved today by preaching the message the disciples preached before the cross? "The kingdom of heaven is at hand"
Let us not continue in speculations.. please tell me what was the offer to the Jews, I have forgotten.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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The reason for all the confusion is while Jesus was yet alive, the preparation for salvation was, "REPENT for the Kingdom of Heaven is near". That was the Gospel, or good news, that the disciples preached BEFORE Jesus' passion and resurrection. AFTER the resurrection, The Gospel ,in it's fullness, was," believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved". Mixing these two events, (before the resurrection, and afterward), is the source of the confusion.

Nice theory, but two verses can destroy it.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.


Malachi 3:6 (ESV)
6 For I the LORD do not change;
therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,782
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You have a different interpretation of romans 11 then.

No one said anything about plan b. It was a plan hidden in God since the world began (Ephesians 3:9)
You talk about the cross like it's plan B, tho. Because you say things like "postponed" and "would have been a kingdom but the Jews..." and "He wanted to set up His earthly throne but He could not because of unbelief"
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,782
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I see "postponed" as it's going to happen, God may be waiting on Israel to respond. The kingdom has been postponed, not the cross.
It is going to happen at exactly the time He ordained from the beginning

That is not "postponed" that is absolutely perfect timing exactly according to His schedule.

It is that people got the time wrong, and did not understand, not that God had to adjust His plans. Just as He told them - not for you to know the times and seasons.
 
Apr 3, 2019
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You never highlight the relevant words Christ died for our sins?

Show me where Peter told Israel the same thing, and no, Acts 3:19 is not saying that.
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord

Of course it's saying Christ died for sins, he does his have to use the exact same words of Paul to be speaking the same doctrine.

(Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.)

(John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.)

That novel mid-acts virus has affected your brain.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
113
It is going to happen at exactly the time He ordained from the beginning

That is not "postponed" that is absolutely perfect timing exactly according to His schedule.

It is that people got the time wrong, and did not understand, not that God had to adjust His plans. Just as He told them - not for you to know the times and seasons.
That’s just it. God ordained it to happen, but did not ordain the exact timing of it In history. You know, some of mans workings plays a part when God decides to move.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
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One apostle says kog, another says koh. Exactly the same thing. One King, One Kingdom. No change of plans on God's part. No rearranging His appointed times.
Why the two terms with words that do not equate. God and heaven are not the same thing in Scripture. God is a spirit. Heaven is part of the creation. The Jews have a promised earthly kingdom. The body of Christ does not have such a promise. This earth is not our home.
 
Apr 3, 2019
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You never highlight the relevant words Christ died for our sins?

Show me where Peter told Israel the same thing, and no, Acts 3:19 is not saying that.
I just need to correct my previous response to this:

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord

Of course it's saying Christ died for sins, he does his he he does not have to use the exact same words as Paul to be speaking the same doctrine.

(Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.)

(John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.)

That novel mid-acts virus has affected your brain.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
113
Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Jesus is a Prince, a king in waiting to restore the kingdom of Israel, and a Saviour from sins.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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There is a Mystery in the bible that I have been trying to solve, and today, I finally SOLVED IT.

I found the most SIGNIFICANT find, that absolutely without a doubt, that PROVES the TEMPLE belongs in the CITY OF DAVID.

2 Samuel 5:7 (ESV)
7 Nevertheless, David took the stronghold of Zion, that is, the city of David.

Lamentations 2:6 (HCSB)
6 He has done violence to His temple as if ⌊it were⌋ a garden ⌊booth⌋, destroying His place of meeting. The LORD has abolished appointed festivals and Sabbaths in Zion. He has despised king and priest in His fierce anger.

2 Chronicles 3:1 (YLT)
1 And Solomon beginneth to build the house of Jehovah, in Jerusalem, in the mount of Moriah, where He appeared to David his father, in the place that David had prepared, in the threshing-floor of Ornan the Jebusite,


Mount Moriah today, know as the TEMPLE MOUNT, would be about 750 - 800 feet north of the City of David, where Mount Zion once stood. So HOW DO WE RECTIFY THAT SUPPOSED ERROR ? ? ? The Jews INSIST it is on Mount Moriah, yet modern day archaeologists insist it was on Mount Zion.

QUOTE:
The topographic map shows that Mount Moriah is not a single peak, but an elongated ridge which commences to rise at its Southern end at the junction of the Kidron and Hinnom Valleys, at the original City of David, (elevation approximately 600 meters).
http://www.templemount.org/moriah2.html END QOUTE.


It covers the area north of the Golden Dome, all the way through the City of DAVID, to the Southern end where it meets the Kidron Valley. So Mount Zion is in the Middle of Mount Moriah.

In the Middle of that RIDGE is the OPHEL, and it is the southern part of OPHEL where archaeologists now believe the TEMPLE should be location, and NO PALESTINIAN has any claim there. If you want to know more, please refer to my thread: https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/third-temple-news.155526/page-80
 
Apr 3, 2019
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I have through Scripture, but you refuse to see it. Why hasn't the end come? If the gospel of the kingdom is the same as the gospel of grace, the end should have come and the Lord should have returned in all His glory. That's the context of Matthew 24.
"The end" coming has nothing to do with there being two gospels - this is a bogus conclusion. There is only one gospel as has been demonstrated in numerous posts.
 
Apr 3, 2019
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And you never answered the question, can someone get saved today by preaching the message the disciples preached before the cross? "The kingdom of heaven is at hand"
Because the preaching of John the Baptist and Jesus were leading up to the full gospel. The kingdom is and was only a part of the full prophetic teachings.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,782
13,544
113
That’s just it. God ordained it to happen, but did not ordain the exact timing of it In history. You know, some of mans workings plays a part when God decides to move.
I disagree.
God sets the times and the seasons.

It is antichrist who supposes that man can change them.