Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#137,921
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#137,921
Guojing said:
When Peter told the Jews that Jesus died because they killed him, therefore they are to repent of that act, you regard that as the same as preaching Jesus died for your sins?
Click to expand...
Maybe you should actually read the text instead of trying to defend your faulty doctrine:

(Acts 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.)

(Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had showed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.)

(Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Peter was preaching precisely the forgiveness of sins, in particular "killing the Prince of life", it's right there in his speech.

Any more hairs you can try and split?
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#137,922
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#137,922
azamzimtoti said:
Maybe you should actually read the text instead of trying to defend your faulty doctrine:

(Acts 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.)

(Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had showed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.)

(Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Peter was preaching precisely the forgiveness of sins, in particular "killing the Prince of life", it's right there in his speech.

Any more hairs you can try and split?
Click to expand...
So you actually believe this says the same thing as 1 Cor 15:1-4?

There is no changing of your mind actually. You are set on believing Peter was preaching 1 Cor 15:1-4, to Israel too.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#137,923
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#137,923
Guojing said:
So you actually believe this says the same thing as 1 Cor 15:1-4?
Click to expand...
It only differs in your mind because you want it to fit in with your mid-acts dispensationalism.

There is no changing of your mind actually. You are set on believing Peter was preaching 1 Cor 15:1-4, to Israel too.
Click to expand...
You just quoted the text I posted - did it go in on eye bypass your brain and out the other eye? Of course he was preaching the same ONE gospel

(1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand)

(1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures)

(1 Cor 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures)
.
.
(Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.)

(Acts 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them)

(Acts 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.)

How you can read this and think there is any difference between Peter or Paul is beyond belief.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#137,924
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#137,924
azamzimtoti said:
It only differs in your mind because you want it to fit in with your mid-acts dispensationalism.



You just quoted the text I posted - did it go in on eye bypass your brain and out the other eye? Of course he was preaching the same ONE gospel

(1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand)

(1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures)

(1 Cor 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures)
.
.
(Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.)

(Acts 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them)

(Acts 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.)

How you can read this and think there is any difference between Peter or Paul is beyond belief.
Click to expand...
You never highlight the relevant words Christ died for our sins?

Show me where Peter told Israel the same thing, and no, Acts 3:19 is not saying that.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#137,926
Jul 31, 2013
37,989
13,627
113
#137,926
Guojing said:
At that time, in Acts 1, there was only one gospel, that was the gospel of the kingdom. I agree with you there.

This is an indication that Peter was trying to get national Israel to accept their gospel of the kingdom. Repent and be baptized as priests, then the kingdom will come (Exodus 19:4-6)
Click to expand...
There is no other gospel but one, and anyone who preaches another is under a curse
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#137,927
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#137,927
posthuman said:
There is no other gospel but one, and anyone who preaches another is under a curse
Click to expand...
The kingdom offer to Israel has been postponed, you can read Romans 11:25-26 for the details when it will start again for them.

In the meantime, for all of us Jews and Gentiles, there is only one gospel that saves now, I agree with you.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#137,929
Jan 13, 2016
17,186
3,703
113
#137,929
posthuman said:
There is no other gospel but one, and anyone who preaches another is under a curse
Click to expand...
You hear Paul say this and automatically think Paul is meaning in all time periods there’s been but one gospel. Remember, gospel simply means glad tidings. And the gospel message that was given to Paul was not even known before it was in fullness revealed to him. There are many scriptures that state this. According to some of you, this gospel Paul speaks of was made known all throughout the OT. That’s being dishonest to the scriptures.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#137,930
#137,930
Guojing said:
You never highlight the relevant words Christ died for our sins?

Show me where Peter told Israel the same thing, and no, Acts 3:19 is not saying that.
Click to expand...
Since there is only Gospel that was preached ...... it does needs to be stated over and over again.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#137,931
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#137,931
EleventhHour said:
Since there is only Gospel that was preached ...... it does needs to be stated over and over again.
Click to expand...
But peter never stated that at all in acts 2 and 3.

Instead he said the Jews killed him. The cross was a murder indictment.

Stephen said the same thing in acts 7
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#137,932
Jul 31, 2013
37,989
13,627
113
#137,932
Guojing said:
postponed
Click to expand...
"postponed" implies God's plan and purposes have been thwarted by human will, that His arm has been made short

That the cross was 'plan B' thrown together hastily when Israel prevented the Almighty from accomplishing His will.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#137,933
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#137,933
posthuman said:
"postponed" implies God's plan and purposes have been thwarted by human will, that His arm has been made short

That the cross was 'plan B' thrown together hastily when Israel prevented the Almighty from accomplishing His will.
Click to expand...
You have a different interpretation of romans 11 then.

No one said anything about plan b. It was a plan hidden in God since the world began (Ephesians 3:9)
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#137,934
Jan 13, 2016
17,186
3,703
113
#137,934
posthuman said:
"postponed" implies God's plan and purposes have been thwarted by human will, that His arm has been made short

That the cross was 'plan B' thrown together hastily when Israel prevented the Almighty from accomplishing His will.
Click to expand...
I see "postponed" as it's going to happen, God may be waiting on Israel to respond. The kingdom has been postponed, not the cross.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#137,935
Jan 13, 2016
17,186
3,703
113
#137,935
EleventhHour said:
Since there is only Gospel that was preached ...... it does needs to be stated over and over again.
Click to expand...
If you go around saying, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" nobody would get saved today. This was only meant for Israel. It is the good news of the restoration of the kingdom of Israel with the rightful king ruling on David's throne. Signs and miracles were to follow giving validity to the message.

Matthew 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#137,936
#137,936
John146 said:
If you go around saying, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" nobody would get saved today. This was only meant for Israel. It is the good news of the restoration of the kingdom of Israel with the rightful king ruling on David's throne. Signs and miracles were to follow giving validity to the message.

Matthew 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Click to expand...

They knew what it meant... does not mean it is what they wanted and therefore their rejection of their Messiah.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#137,937
Jan 13, 2016
17,186
3,703
113
#137,937
EleventhHour said:
They knew what it meant... does not mean it is what they wanted and therefore their rejection of their Messiah.
Click to expand...
Wait, they knew that by saying, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" that meant that Christ was going to die for sins, be buried and on the third day rise again? Do you really believe this? When Scripture is clear that the disciples themselves had no clue of the cross?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#137,938
#137,938
John146 said:
Wait, they knew that by saying, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" that meant that Christ was going to die for sins, be buried and on the third day rise again? Do you really believe this? When Scripture is clear that the disciples themselves had no clue of the cross?
Click to expand...
It has already been demonstrated that God both revealed and concealed at certain times .. so that God could bring His plan to fruition... it was always one plan ... one Gospel.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#137,939
Jan 13, 2016
17,186
3,703
113
#137,939
EleventhHour said:
It has already been demonstrated that God both revealed and concealed at certain times .. so that God could bring His plan to fruition... it was always one plan ... one Gospel.
Click to expand...
You dodged the question at hand. You said they knew what it meant. Did the disciples go around preaching the d,b,r for sins? Yes or no? Could the message they preached prior to the cross save anyone today?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.