The false end time "7 year tribulation" doctrine

[BlessedCreator]

Let's examine scripture.

The seven year tribulation doctrine does NOT come from the following verse.

Revelation 7:14
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of
great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

That verse is speaking of the tribulation of all saints, of all ages that have been martyred for their faith.
But it is also, more specifically speaking of the time when the Lord returned to destroy Jerusalem.
Jesus told us of that time when the Romans came and destroyed Jerusalem, that "for then
shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

So we see that those verses are not speaking of any end time tribulation period.

The other verses that people refer to and try to make a point that there will be some end time 7 year tribulation
period is in Daniel 9:24-27
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and
to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting
righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore
and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem
unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built
again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall
Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of
the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in
the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the
overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the
consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The people that try to preach this false 7 year tribulation doctrine try to say that these verses
are speaking of the Antichrist. When it is actually speaking
of the messiah, of Jesus Christ. These 70 weeks were fulfilled during Christ's ministry. He fulfilled this
prophecy! Don't believe me? Just read commentaries on BibleHub on Daniel 9:27 and you will see.

Some try to say that the desolation of the temple from Matthew 24:15,
is what is referred to in the above scriptures of Daniel as
"the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease".
These are two different events. The desolation of the temple in Matthew is referring to
the desecration of the sanctuary by the mad attempt of Antiochus Epiphanes to
stop the "daily sacrifice," and to substitute an idolatrous worship in its place.

The scripture in Daniel is referring to when Christ, in the MIDST of the week, offered
his own body, that great sacrifice for the expiation of sin, to reconcile sinners to
God; by that most holy and acceptable victim, he completed and
abolished all the typical sacrifices of the law.

There is no end time 7 year tribulation period.

 

[JaumeJ]

Although the number of years, Seven, is never stated in the Word, the information afforded the faithful from the factors fo time given well support the seven years time given it by all who read and pray...……...It is possible it could be off by a few days but I would not stretch that offness to more than that.

The gretest Tribulation ever will be those last years, nothing false about it.

 

[Diakonos]

Although the number of years, Seven, is never stated in the Word, the information afforded the faithful from the factors fo time given well support the seven years time given it by all who read and pray...……...It is possible it could be off by a few days but I would not stretch that offness to more than that.

The gretest Tribulation ever will be those last years, nothing false about it.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...between-the-69th-and-70th-weeks.191615/page-4
post # 70

 

[Yahshua]

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...between-the-69th-and-70th-weeks.191615/page-4
post # 70

Hey Diakonos. If you ever want to link directly to a post from another thread your post number (to the right) is also a link you can grab.

 

[Diakonos]

Hey Diakonos. If you ever want to link directly to a post from another thread your post number (to the right) is also a link you can grab.

Oh wow! thanks, that's helpful.

 

[NotmebutHim]

So where do the seal, trumpet and bowl judgments come into play? Are they happening now or have they already taken place?

(Not sure if I have them in the correct order.........)

 

[Chester]

Let's examine scripture.

The seven year tribulation doctrine does NOT come from the following verse.

Revelation 7:14
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of
great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

That verse is speaking of the tribulation of all saints, of all ages that have been martyred for their faith.
But it is also, more specifically speaking of the time when the Lord returned to destroy Jerusalem.
Jesus told us of that time when the Romans came and destroyed Jerusalem, that "for then
shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

So we see that those verses are not speaking of any end time tribulation period.

The other verses that people refer to and try to make a point that there will be some end time 7 year tribulation
period is in Daniel 9:24-27
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and
to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting
righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore
and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem
unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built
again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall
Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of
the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in
the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the
overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the
consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The people that try to preach this false 7 year tribulation doctrine try to say that these verses
are speaking of the Antichrist. When it is actually speaking
of the messiah, of Jesus Christ. These 70 weeks were fulfilled during Christ's ministry. He fulfilled this
prophecy! Don't believe me? Just read commentaries on BibleHub on Daniel 9:27 and you will see.

Some try to say that the desolation of the temple from Matthew 24:15,
is what is referred to in the above scriptures of Daniel as
"the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease".
These are two different events. The desolation of the temple in Matthew is referring to
the desecration of the sanctuary by the mad attempt of Antiochus Epiphanes to
stop the "daily sacrifice," and to substitute an idolatrous worship in its place.

The scripture in Daniel is referring to when Christ, in the MIDST of the week, offered
his own body, that great sacrifice for the expiation of sin, to reconcile sinners to
God; by that most holy and acceptable victim, he completed and
abolished all the typical sacrifices of the law.

There is no end time 7 year tribulation period.

Let me just point our two simple things from your writing above:

(1) You say "just read commentaries on BibleHub on Daniel 9:27 and you will see"!

Answer: Since Sorry, some of us here study the text itself, not the commentaries written about the text!hen are commentaries the answer to Scripture?

(2) You say that Matthew 24:15: "The desolation of the temple in Matthew is referring to the desecration of the sanctuary by the mad attempt of Antiochus Epiphanes to stop the "daily sacrifice," and to substitute an idolatrous worship in its place."

Answer: Here is Matthew 24:13-17:
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Antiochus Epiphanes lived from 216 B.C. to 164 B.C.
What Jesus was talking about in vs. 15 was something yet future to the time when Jesus was speaking.

 

[Diakonos]

So where do the seal, trumpet and bowl judgments come into play? Are they happening now or have they already taken place?

(Not sure if I have them in the correct order.........)

The book Revelation is in Chronological order. Ask yourself what events have taken place, and you should get a good idea. I'd say we're right about at the end of chapter 3

 

[pottersclay]

"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of
great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."


Well if they came out of the tribulation there musta been one.

Revelation is speaking of a world wide event referring to all nation's wouldn't you agree? Not just the Jews and Romans.

 

[tourist]

Oh wow! thanks, that's helpful.

I didn't know that either and I have been a member for over 6 years. Good to know. Might have to try that out.

 

[acts5_29]

Jesus said that the Father shortened the days. It may very well be less than seven years.

 

[acts5_29]

"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of
great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."


Well if they came out of the tribulation there musta been one.
.

This is true, but this verse alone doesn't mean that it lasts seven years.

If you take the idealistic interpretation of Revelation, the great tribulation is simply symbolic for our time here on earth.

 

[Dino246]

I'm often surprised at the rancor expressed over this topic. Respectful disagreement doesn't seem to be common hereabouts.

 

[Diakonos]

Gabriel said 70 weeks.
שָׁבוּעַ shâbûwaʿ"week"="heptad" (a unit of 7). But the question is: A unit of 7...what? days? weeks? months? years?
Well...Moses gives us some insight in Gen 29:26-28:

"But Laban said, “It is not the practice in our place to marry off the younger before the firstborn.
"Complete the week of this one, and we will give you the other also for the service which you shall serve with me
for another seven years.” Jacob did so and completed her week, and he gave him his daughter Rachel as his wife."

Someone might object to this meaning of the word שָׁבוּעַ shâbûwa. But here's where it becomes clear that "7 years" IS the meaning of each "week" in Daniel 9:24-27:

69 x (7 years) = 483 years = 173,880 days.
We know that this timeline began on March 14, 445 BC (The "issuing of a a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem" by King Artaxerxes) Neh 2:1-8.
Exactly 173,880 days after that decree, Jesus came to Jerusalem riding on a donkey, The Triumphal Entry....which fits perfectly with Gabriel's prophesy because Jesus was "cut off" (killed/crucified). In His Triumphal Entry, Christ, in fulfillment of Zechariah 9:9, officially presented Himself to the nation of Israel as the Messiah. He was evidently familiar with Daniel’s prophecy when on that occasion He said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes” (Luke 19:42).

So what this tells us is that the weeks of Daniel's prophesy are units of 7 years. This means that the 70th week will be a 7-year period just like the rest.

 

[49]

Let's examine scripture.

The seven year tribulation doctrine does NOT come from the following verse.

Revelation 7:14
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of
great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

That verse is speaking of the tribulation of all saints, of all ages that have been martyred for their faith.
But it is also, more specifically speaking of the time when the Lord returned to destroy Jerusalem.
Jesus told us of that time when the Romans came and destroyed Jerusalem, that "for then
shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

So we see that those verses are not speaking of any end time tribulation period.

The other verses that people refer to and try to make a point that there will be some end time 7 year tribulation
period is in Daniel 9:24-27
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and
to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting
righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore
and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem
unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built
again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall
Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of
the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in
the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the
overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the
consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The people that try to preach this false 7 year tribulation doctrine try to say that these verses
are speaking of the Antichrist. When it is actually speaking
of the messiah, of Jesus Christ. These 70 weeks were fulfilled during Christ's ministry. He fulfilled this
prophecy! Don't believe me? Just read commentaries on BibleHub on Daniel 9:27 and you will see.

Some try to say that the desolation of the temple from Matthew 24:15,
is what is referred to in the above scriptures of Daniel as
"the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease".
These are two different events. The desolation of the temple in Matthew is referring to
the desecration of the sanctuary by the mad attempt of Antiochus Epiphanes to
stop the "daily sacrifice," and to substitute an idolatrous worship in its place.

The scripture in Daniel is referring to when Christ, in the MIDST of the week, offered
his own body, that great sacrifice for the expiation of sin, to reconcile sinners to
God; by that most holy and acceptable victim, he completed and
abolished all the typical sacrifices of the law.

There is no end time 7 year tribulation period.

There is only one Great Tribulation am aware of myself, and that has not happened; otherwise, would not be posting this right now....

 

[Ahwatukee]

Let's examine scripture.

The seven year tribulation doctrine does NOT come from the following verse.

Revelation 7:14
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of
great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

That verse is speaking of the tribulation of all saints, of all ages that have been martyred for their faith.

The above is false right out of the gate!

Those mentioned above who wash their robes and making them white in the blood of the Lamb, are those great tribulation saints who will have died keeping their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will have not worshiped the beast, his image and will have not received his mark.

============================================
"They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death."

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or hands."
============================================

The reference to the beast, his image and his mark, put those saints in the time period leading up to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, where according to Revelation 19:20 and at which time the beast and the false prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. Therefore, your claim that the "verse is speaking of the tribulation of all saints, of all ages" is false, because the beast has not yet been revealed and therefore cannot be referring to the saints from all ages.

In addition Jesus said that the great tribulation would be the worst time in the history of the world from the beginning, until now and never to be equaled again. And that if that great tribulation was allowed to go on any longer, no one on earth would be left alive. When has the earth ever experienced this? The answer is, never! Therefore, the entire seven year tribulation/great tribulation period is still future and will begin when the antichrist makes his seven year covenant with Israel. 3 1/2 years later, he will cause the sacrifices and offerings which will have been going on to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple, which is what Jesus is talking about in Matt.24:15-22. Once that event takes place, then there will only be 3 1/2 years before Christ returns to the earth to end the age.

But it is also, more specifically speaking of the time when the Lord returned to destroy Jerusalem.
Jesus told us of that time when the Romans came and destroyed Jerusalem, that "for then
shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Correct! And do you think that the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem meets fits the description of there being great tribulation such as the world has not seen from the beginning, until now, including the flood? No! Though the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem was a terrible event, it was not worse than the flood or anything else that has happened, even to this very day. The next part of the scripture which you conveniently left out is that says, If that tribulation was allowed to go on any longer, no one on earth would survive. And the reason that they would no survive is because of God's wrath that will be poured out during that entire seven years via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

The other verses that people refer to and try to make a point that there will be some end time 7 year tribulation
period is in Daniel 9:24-27

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and
to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting
righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore
and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem
unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built
again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall
Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of
the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in
the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the
overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the
consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The people that try to preach this false 7 year tribulation doctrine try to say that these verses
are speaking of the Antichrist. When it is actually speaking
of the messiah, of Jesus Christ. These 70 weeks were fulfilled during Christ's ministry. He fulfilled this
prophecy! Don't believe me? Just read commentaries on BibleHub on Daniel 9:27 and you will see.

First of all, your trust in BibleHub instead of what God's word says, is one error.
Do you know what the word "bdelugma" translated as "abomination" means? It is defined as a reeking stench, hence is disgustingly abhorrent to God. Therefore by making Jesus "that prince" in the verse, you would have Jesus as the one who is setting up that abomination which is detestable to God. You would also have Jesus as the one who is destroyed at the end of that seven years.

All that you are doing is repeating preterism, which is a false teaching. You are repeating the same apologetics that they use.

 

[BlessedCreator]

Are you referring to Revelation 7:14?
"I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

or are you referring to Matthew 24:21?
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mathew 24:21 is referring to the time following the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70AD.
(many would agree with me : https://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/24-21.htm)


Revelation 7:14 is referring to the entirety of the time of Christianity which was from Christ till now and to the end, that is the great tribulation being spoken of in this verse.

"Is not the great tribulation the tribulation which those must encounter who are on the side of Christ and righteousness, and refuse to receive the mark of worldliness and sin on their heart, conscience, and life?"-Ellicott commentary on Rev 7:14

 

[Ahwatukee]

Are you referring to Revelation 7:14?
"I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

or are you referring to Matthew 24:21?
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mathew 24:21 is referring to the time following the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70AD.
(many would agree with me : https://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/24-21.htm)


Revelation 7:14 is referring to the entirety of the time of Christianity which was from Christ till now and to the end, that is the great tribulation being spoken of in this verse.

No! Revelation 7:14 is not referring to the entire church age!

You and others need to stop coming in here with partial scriptural information! Jesus identified the great tribulation as beginning when the abomination is set up in the holy place.

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

Since Jesus was quoting Daniel 9:27, that ruler will establish a seven year covenant with Israel. And in the middle of that seven years, he will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple. It is after the abomination is set up that Jesus says the following:

"For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short." Suffice to say, there is nothing that has yet taken place, (including the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple) that meets the criteria above and is therefore is still a future event.

The great tribulation will be the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year tribulation period. At that time Israel will flee out into the wilderness to that place that God will have prepared for her. And it is during that same 42 months when the beast will be given power to make war and conquer the great tribulation saints.

All that said, the great tribulation saints is referring to those saints who will be on the earth during that time. The verse itself is self explanatory when the elder says: these are those who have come out of the great tribulation, which again would be referring to those saints who are on the earth when that seven year covenant is made and the abomination is set up.

These great tribulation saints are those who are introduced in Rev.7:9-17 as those in white robes which no man can count from every nation, tribe, people and language, which would make them all gentiles. This is not the church, but those who will become believers after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath and the beasts reign.

 

[BlessedCreator]

Some of the best Biblical scholars such as Ellicott and Barnes agree with me. Their commentaries are on Biblehub.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Some of the best Biblical scholars such as Ellicott and Barnes agree with me. Their commentaries are on Biblehub.

Well then they are in error, because their information does not match scripture.

Any so-called scholar that claims that the great tribulation period has already taken place, doesn't know what he is talking about. All of these events are quickly approaching and will take place during the time of God's wrath. But before all of that, the church must first be removed from the earth, because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath.