The false end time "7 year tribulation" doctrine

[pottersclay]

I don´t agree....revelation does indeed have to do with saints...for if it didn´t then the souls under the altar would not have heard HIS RESPONSE to wait until the numbers who would be martyred as they had been is complete..

As far as redemption of anything added to the saints is what I was referring to saint. It is mostly about Israels redemption. Any thing that deals with the saints takes place in heaven because that's where we are in this period of time.
We are not appointed to wrath , we are found in Christ praise God. We return with him.

 

[just_truth]

 

[Ahwatukee]

What I heard was that anyone who does not believe in a "literal" 7-year tribulation is delusional.

Yet translating the Greek word "genea" as "generation" seems pretty reasonable to me. At least, if you are a Bible translator, and not just someone trying to make the pieces of Revelation fit. And the arrival at a 7-year tribulation is not "literal". It takes some symbolism involved in order to arrive at that.

If the "literal" 7-year tribulation is so obvious, then there must be some slam-dunk evidence pointing to that, which blows away other people's views and reveals them to be "delusional". And I haven't seen it yet. Saying that the word "genea" translates not to "generation," but to...well...pretty much whatever you want it to mean...certainly does not constitute that.

* He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." (Dan.9:27)

* And they (the nations) will trample the holy city for 42 months.

* And I will empower my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.

* And the woman fled into the wilderness, where God had prepared a place for her to be nourished for 1,260 days.

* The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for 42 months.

* But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.

The seventy sevens that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem described in Daniel 9:24, is seventy seven year periods or 490 years. Sixty nine of those seven year periods were fulfilled when the Anointed One was cut off, which was Christ crucified. The "one seven" mentioned in Daniel 9:27 is the last seven year period i.e. the seventieth seven which is to be fulfilled in the future leading up to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

That last seven year period is divided up into two 3 1/2 year periods with the setting up of the abomination being the dividing event. The references in Revelation, as 42 months, 1,260 days and a time, times and a half a time, are all making reference to both of those 3 1/2 year periods which is covering that entire seven years

42 months in 30 day increments = 3 1/2 years

1260 days in 30 day increments = 3 1/2 years

A time = 1 year, Times = 2 years, half a time = half a year which = 3 1/2 years

The abomination is also mentioned in Revelation, not name by but by description as being that image that the false prophet has the inhabitants of the earth make in honor of the first beast/antichrist.

Regarding "this generation" it is in reference to the entire generation on the planet earth when those events begin to take place and is not just referring to Israel. All of the inhabitants of the world would be sharing that last generation regardless of nation, tribe, people or language. So "this generation" is that last world-wide generation that will be existing when these events begin to take place, which will be fulfilled before that generation comes to its completion.

 

[Humbleservant777]

Let's examine scripture.

The seven year tribulation doctrine does NOT come from the following verse.

Revelation 7:14
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of
great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

That verse is speaking of the tribulation of all saints, of all ages that have been martyred for their faith.
But it is also, more specifically speaking of the time when the Lord returned to destroy Jerusalem.
Jesus told us of that time when the Romans came and destroyed Jerusalem, that "for then
shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

So we see that those verses are not speaking of any end time tribulation period.

The other verses that people refer to and try to make a point that there will be some end time 7 year tribulation
period is in Daniel 9:24-27
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and
to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting
righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore
and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem
unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built
again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall
Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of
the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in
the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the
overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the
consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The people that try to preach this false 7 year tribulation doctrine try to say that these verses
are speaking of the Antichrist. When it is actually speaking
of the messiah, of Jesus Christ. These 70 weeks were fulfilled during Christ's ministry. He fulfilled this
prophecy! Don't believe me? Just read commentaries on BibleHub on Daniel 9:27 and you will see.

Some try to say that the desolation of the temple from Matthew 24:15,
is what is referred to in the above scriptures of Daniel as
"the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease".
These are two different events. The desolation of the temple in Matthew is referring to
the desecration of the sanctuary by the mad attempt of Antiochus Epiphanes to
stop the "daily sacrifice," and to substitute an idolatrous worship in its place.

The scripture in Daniel is referring to when Christ, in the MIDST of the week, offered
his own body, that great sacrifice for the expiation of sin, to reconcile sinners to
God; by that most holy and acceptable victim, he completed and
abolished all the typical sacrifices of the law.

There is no end time 7 year tribulation period.

From my understanding the time of trouble or great tribulation is 3.5 years.

 

[cv5]

Let's examine scripture.

The seven year tribulation doctrine does NOT come from the following verse.

Revelation 7:14
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of
great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

That verse is speaking of the tribulation of all saints, of all ages that have been martyred for their faith.
But it is also, more specifically speaking of the time when the Lord returned to destroy Jerusalem.
Jesus told us of that time when the Romans came and destroyed Jerusalem, that "for then
shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

So we see that those verses are not speaking of any end time tribulation period.

The other verses that people refer to and try to make a point that there will be some end time 7 year tribulation
period is in Daniel 9:24-27
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and
to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting
righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore
and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem
unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built
again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall
Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of
the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in
the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the
overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the
consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The people that try to preach this false 7 year tribulation doctrine try to say that these verses
are speaking of the Antichrist. When it is actually speaking
of the messiah, of Jesus Christ. These 70 weeks were fulfilled during Christ's ministry. He fulfilled this
prophecy! Don't believe me? Just read commentaries on BibleHub on Daniel 9:27 and you will see.

Some try to say that the desolation of the temple from Matthew 24:15,
is what is referred to in the above scriptures of Daniel as
"the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease".
These are two different events. The desolation of the temple in Matthew is referring to
the desecration of the sanctuary by the mad attempt of Antiochus Epiphanes to
stop the "daily sacrifice," and to substitute an idolatrous worship in its place.

The scripture in Daniel is referring to when Christ, in the MIDST of the week, offered
his own body, that great sacrifice for the expiation of sin, to reconcile sinners to
God; by that most holy and acceptable victim, he completed and
abolished all the typical sacrifices of the law.

There is no end time 7 year tribulation period.

Around these parts preterists are thicker than crows in a corn patch.
And just about as hard to get rid of.

 

[BlessedCreator]

From my understanding the time of trouble or great tribulation is 3.5 years.

What verses are you referring to?

 

[Ahwatukee]

From my understanding the time of trouble or great tribulation is 3.5 years.

You are correct! Jesus reveals the great tribulation as beginning with the setting up of the abomination, which Daniel 9:27 has taking place in the middle of the seven years.

 

[BlessedCreator]

The last week of Daniel was fulfilled in Christ's time by Christ Himself.
Daniel 9:27 is referring to Jesus.

"27) And he shall confirm.—The subject of the sentence is ambiguous. Theod. makes it to be “one week.” LXX. “the covenant;” others take it to be the Antichristian prince spoken of in the last verse, an opinion which derives some support from Daniel 7:25. According to this interpretation, the covenant refers to the agreement which the prince makes with the large number of persons who become apostates. But (1) the word “covenant” does not apply to any such agreement, but rather to a covenant with God, and (2) in Daniel 9:26 it is the people of the prince, and not the prince, which is the subject of the sentence. It is therefore more appropriate to take Messiah as the subject. During the last closing week of the long period mentioned, Messiah, though cut off, shall confirm God’s covenant (comp. Daniel 11:22; Daniel 11:28; Daniel 11:30; Daniel 11:32) with many, that is, with those who receive Him.
In the midst of the week.—Or, during half the week (the latter half of the week, according to the LXX.), he will cause to cease all the Mosaic sacrifices (possibly those mentioned in Daniel 8:11), whether bloody or unbloody. The verb “cause to cease” is used here as in Jeremiah 36:29.

And for the overspreading . . .—The Greek versions agree in translating this as follows, καὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἱερὸν βδελυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων, which St. Jerome follows, “et erit in templo abominatio desolationis. However, it is not possible to obtain any such meaning from our present Hebrew text without omitting the last letter and altering the last vowel of the word translated “abominations.” As the text stands it can be literally translated only as follows, “and upon the wing of abominations is a desolator.” The desolator, of course, is the person who causes the desolations mentioned in Daniel 9:26. But what is meant by the “wing of abominations?” The language is without parallel in the Old Testament, unless such passages as Psalm 18:10; Psalm 104:3 are adduced, where, however, the plural “wings,” and not the singular, is used. If the number is disregarded, the words before us are explained to mean that “the abomination” or idolatry is the power by which the desolator accomplishes his purposes. He comes riding on the wings of abominations, using them for his ministers as God does the winds or the cherubim. As it appears decisive against this interpretation that Daniel has written “wing,” and not “wings,” it is better to explain the words as referring to the “sanctuary” spoken of in the last verse. The sense is in that case, “and upon the wing—i.e., the pinnacle of the abominations (comp. the use of πτερύγιον, Matthew 4:5) is a desolator. The Temple is thus called on account of the extent to which it had been desecrated by Israel.

Until the consummation.—These words refer back to Daniel 9:26, and mean that these abominations will continue till the desolation which God has decreed shall be poured upon that which is desolated. Though the word “desolate” is active in Daniel 8:13; Daniel 12:11, it appears in this passage to be used in a passive sense, as also in Daniel 9:18. That which is foretold by Daniel is the complete and final destruction of the same city and temple which evoked the prophet’s prayer. There is no prophecy that the desolator himself is destined to destruction. Of his doom nothing is here stated. The “prince” appears merely as the instrument pre-ordained by God, by whose people both city and sanctuary are to be destroyed."-Ellicott commentary on Daniel 9:27

 

[cv5]

The last week of Daniel was fulfilled in Christ's time by Christ Himself.
Daniel 9:27 is referring to Jesus.

"27) And he shall confirm.—The subject of the sentence is ambiguous. Theod. makes it to be “one week.” LXX. “the covenant;” others take it to be the Antichristian prince spoken of in the last verse, an opinion which derives some support from Daniel 7:25. According to this interpretation, the covenant refers to the agreement which the prince makes with the large number of persons who become apostates. But (1) the word “covenant” does not apply to any such agreement, but rather to a covenant with God, and (2) in Daniel 9:26 it is the people of the prince, and not the prince, which is the subject of the sentence. It is therefore more appropriate to take Messiah as the subject. During the last closing week of the long period mentioned, Messiah, though cut off, shall confirm God’s covenant (comp. Daniel 11:22; Daniel 11:28; Daniel 11:30; Daniel 11:32) with many, that is, with those who receive Him.
In the midst of the week.—Or, during half the week (the latter half of the week, according to the LXX.), he will cause to cease all the Mosaic sacrifices (possibly those mentioned in Daniel 8:11), whether bloody or unbloody. The verb “cause to cease” is used here as in Jeremiah 36:29.

And for the overspreading . . .—The Greek versions agree in translating this as follows, καὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἱερὸν βδελυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων, which St. Jerome follows, “et erit in templo abominatio desolationis. However, it is not possible to obtain any such meaning from our present Hebrew text without omitting the last letter and altering the last vowel of the word translated “abominations.” As the text stands it can be literally translated only as follows, “and upon the wing of abominations is a desolator.” The desolator, of course, is the person who causes the desolations mentioned in Daniel 9:26. But what is meant by the “wing of abominations?” The language is without parallel in the Old Testament, unless such passages as Psalm 18:10; Psalm 104:3 are adduced, where, however, the plural “wings,” and not the singular, is used. If the number is disregarded, the words before us are explained to mean that “the abomination” or idolatry is the power by which the desolator accomplishes his purposes. He comes riding on the wings of abominations, using them for his ministers as God does the winds or the cherubim. As it appears decisive against this interpretation that Daniel has written “wing,” and not “wings,” it is better to explain the words as referring to the “sanctuary” spoken of in the last verse. The sense is in that case, “and upon the wing—i.e., the pinnacle of the abominations (comp. the use of πτερύγιον, Matthew 4:5) is a desolator. The Temple is thus called on account of the extent to which it had been desecrated by Israel.

Until the consummation.—These words refer back to Daniel 9:26, and mean that these abominations will continue till the desolation which God has decreed shall be poured upon that which is desolated. Though the word “desolate” is active in Daniel 8:13; Daniel 12:11, it appears in this passage to be used in a passive sense, as also in Daniel 9:18. That which is foretold by Daniel is the complete and final destruction of the same city and temple which evoked the prophet’s prayer. There is no prophecy that the desolator himself is destined to destruction. Of his doom nothing is here stated. The “prince” appears merely as the instrument pre-ordained by God, by whose people both city and sanctuary are to be destroyed."-Ellicott commentary on Daniel 9:27

Incoherent incongruous irreverent and irrelevant sophistry.
The entire book of Daniel corroborates with Daniel chapter 9 perfectly. As do all of the other relevant prophecies in Scripture. Sir Robert Anderson's book The Coming Prince is unquestionably
the correct exegetical treatment. Alternative views are so easily refuted that they ought to be abandoned outright, and more so now that it is obvious that Israel is in the land.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The last week of Daniel was fulfilled in Christ's time by Christ Himself.
Daniel 9:27 is referring to Jesus.

That is impossible, since Jesus was cut off at the end of the sixty ninth seven. How then could He fulfill that seven years?

"Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, f the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing."

Seven sevens = the restoration and rebuilding of Jerusalem

Sixty two sevens = At the end of which the Anointed One will be cut off (put to death)

Seven sevens followed by Sixty two sevens = 483 years at the end of which Christ was crucified

Therefore, prior to the last seven years, the Anointed One would have already been cut off. How then could the Anointed One fulfill the last seven years, which by the way, hasn't happened yet?

 

[Diakonos]

The last week of Daniel was fulfilled in Christ's time

I read your comment. But consider these important timeline events

1. The resuscitation of the beast
2. The 1260 days
3. The man of lawlessness

How do these fit into your claim that it was already fulfilled?
What were these events if they already happened?