Not By Works

[posthuman]

The man asked for forgiveness...no....begged for forgiveness and received it.
The Master took that forgiveness away.
Are we to make this yet another passage that doesn't really mean what it says?

This is how My heavenly Father will treat each of you
unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.
(Matthew 18:35)
​

do you believe that the sons of God do not forgive their brothers or sisters from their heart?

I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged Me to.
(Matthew 18:32)
​

was it because men begged God to, that He sent His Son?

‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’
(Matthew 18:26)
​

is this how you believe we are saved? by promising to pay for our own sins?

Since he was not able to pay, the Master ordered that he and his wife and his children
and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
(Matthew 18:25)
​

is this how God was revealed to you? by selling you and your wife and all your children into slavery to pay your debt to Him?



turn back 1 page in your Bible for a minute:

“What do you think, Simon?” He asked.
“From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes — from their own children or from others?”​

“From others,” Peter answered.​

“Then the children are exempt,” Jesus said to him.​

(Matthew 17:25-26)​

who are we talking about, when we are talking about those who owe debts to the King -- servants or sons?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To clarify, you asked if a man who starts out trusting the pilot but then later jumps out the plane, did he ever really trust him"? By that picture, it's clear that giving up later has nothing to do with whether or not faith and trust existed in the beginning.

To clarify this is the post you responded to

yes, Trust

If you trust something will it not remain in you?

If you do not really trust in anything, it may stay for awhile. But it will fade. And you either have religion which you are using for some selfish thing, or you will walk away

no mention of a plane

the pilot example was yours. Trying to say I never trusted the pilot because of something my wife did I killed myself,, in this example I was not trusting a pilot to save me, So your also being untruthful in this post

ps, you never answered me

kohn said we can KNOW we have eternal life, why did John lie

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen, but OSAS claims our ability to obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith. For OSAS to agree to anything less is theological suicide.
.

here you have falsly accused what is not true

osas does not in any shape or form believe this. You sir are in sin.

 

[Lightskin]

Not according to Matthew 18:23-35


That's right.
You won't be lost again because of some kind of fumbling on His part.
You may be lost again because you don't care about Christ and His forgiveness anymore and you go back to the world or back to some other perceived source of justification.


That is true.
But He has made His ways known to us in regard to loss of salvation.
The gift of forgiveness can and will be revoked in the kingdom of God by the Father (Matthew 18:23,35).

How you derived your conclusions is truly baffling. It’s actually heretical.

 

[EleventhHour]

I mean the original osas that everyone went scurrying back to when preacher4truth exposed the existence of the new osas that everyone denied they were pushing.

No one scurried back to anything. I still believe the gift is given to those who come to Jesus for the gift of eternal life no strings attached.
However, that does not mean that there will not be resulting consequences from being saved.


No quid pro quo

I still disagree that works are necessary to prove salvation.
Key word ...Necessary
I still disagree one looks to self for evidence of salvation

The human eye is not really able to differentiate works of the saved from works of the unsaved.

However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
Romans 4:5

 

[EleventhHour]

Not according to Matthew 18:23-35


That's right.
You won't be lost again because of some kind of fumbling on His part.
You may be lost again because you don't care about Christ and His forgiveness anymore and you go back to the world or back to some other perceived source of justification.

That is true.
But He has made His ways known to us in regard to loss of salvation.
The gift of forgiveness can and will be revoked in the kingdom of God by the Father (Matthew 18:23,35).

God surpasses any fickleness of the human heart, and when we falter He proves Himself once again Faithful......thereby magnifying Himself in the midst of our human weakness.

The ministry of Christ Jesus was one of redemption.

You do not speak of Him.. you speak of some other ineffectual fickle savior, may no one be persuaded of your words.

God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Cor 1:9
Amen

 

[dcontroversal]

I will go with the people who have studied Koine Greek, so really I am not on my own but you are.

One minute it is too much sin, next minute the issue is stop believing, then it is no fruit... then it is not fulfilling the law.

You are so desperate to prove NOSAS................. but your desperation and inconsistency speaks volumes.

Amen....and inept Cainologist not that bright nor honest with scripture....!!

 

[dcontroversal]

The wheat and tares motif only applied to the kingdom of Israel. There is only "wheat" in the church, ye are either born again or not.

Except for the fact the field is the WORLD in the parable of the wheat and tares....obvious believers and or unbelievers....In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile as the two have been made one (believer) in Christ!

 

[dcontroversal]

Where does Jesus say that present tense believers will not always believe in Him? That’s not what I’m reading in (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24: 6:39,40,47; 11:25,26; 18:9)

The Galatians were getting sidetracked by legalistic teachers, but nowhere does it state that seeking justification by the law was their final answer and they lost their salvation.

Any honest person on this site can see his idiotic contradictions, lack of contextual honesty and complete and utter sickening twist of the word of God to peddle his false dogma!

 

[dcontroversal]

Saints are not tossed into the Lake of Fire, that would mean Jesus is going into the Lake of Fire with them.

The "enduring" is clearly a physical endurance during the tribulation.
The are saved from a physical death at that time.

He obviously has no inkling of the words saint and or elect....no surprise since he cannot grasp biblical salvation...

 

[dcontroversal]

Salvation is a junky car i have to keep pouring money into?

_________________________________________

Only if you are Judges, Ralph, Fran, Seaperch and the other working for Cainologists that have burned up in this thread.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Yo would do well to study the OT Sanctuary pattern to see the New Testament application. Jesus is our High Priest and what He does is that which was previously "shadows of things to come".

The pattern does not help the investigative judgment heresy.

In fact no where in the pattern is there a checking and ticking off of those the sacrificial lambs sins that were covered. It covered the nation. Just as Christ's once for all covers the nation of Christians.

The I.j. is the product of E.G. White's Id, in an attempt to explain away the failed "prophecy" of the return of Jesus in 1844.

Monsters from the Id.

 

[dcontroversal]

what in the world are you talking about?

where did this accusation come from?

because i called you out on your bogus eisegesis of the text of Zechariah, you think i am trying to excuse sin??

you're not making any sense to me.

He only makes sense in his own mind

 

[Judges1318]

Okay, let’s try it your way. For starters, our sin debt is too large to pay back, yet the Lord is going to sell us, along with our wife and kids to pay it back. Now explain to me exactly how that will work.

Remember, this is a parable.
This is probably a reference to the household of Israel as a whole.

Now if we just beg and plead with the Lord enough to forgive our sins, He will automatically forgive our sins, even if He knows we have an unforgiving heart in small matters? Explain exactly how that works as well.

He knew the Galatians would fall away, yet Paul clearly explains how they did in fact receive the gospel in salvation despite Him knowing the future when they would stop relying on Christ for justification.

So according to your interpretation, apparently the Lord is not all knowing and forgives us regardless, because He is compassionate and pities us when we beg.

"the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” - Romans 10:12-13

Got a problem with 'dat?
You're saying he won't answer everyone who calls on Him.

The issue isn't whether or not God really forgives someone who asks.
The issue is the condition of the heart that calls out to Him and, consequently, how deeply rooted the message of that forgiveness they have received becomes in that soil.

So as you can see, the kingdom of God is like or compared to a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants, but this doesn’t mean the parable is to be taken line upon line, exactly like it in every detail.

That's right, so stop doing that (the man's family being sold into slavery is obviously not a literal feature of the principle being taught here).
Focus on what is clear in the Parable:

The servant asked for forgiveness.
The servant really did get that forgiveness.
He got it even though he obviously did not receive it in a good and noble heart.
Free gifts, forgiveness in this case of all things, can indeed be taken back.
This is how it is in the kingdom.
This is how the Father will treat each of us in these circumstances.

The MAIN point of the parable for the purpose of this discussion is FREE GIFTS CAN AND WILL BE TAKEN BACK. But osas is so sure gifts can not be taken back or they are not really gifts. Obviously, Romans 11:29 isn't talking about a person receiving the forgiveness of sin in salvation. But we knew that already by just reading it in context--the thing osas refuses to do in the passage.

 

[azamzimtoti]

No quid pro quo

 

[dcontroversal]

Seventh Day Adventist

That explains a lot.....another cult!

 

[dcontroversal]

And trying to convince the rest of us to be live in insecurity..... tragic

His idiocy will never convince me...God already has and what he gives is eternally given and irrevocable while being based entirely upon Jesus!

 

[Judges1318]

How you derived your conclusions is truly baffling. It’s actually heretical.

My conclusions come right from scripture.
I've been an avid, unbiased reader of scripture for 34 years and I have found it truly amazing how much of what the church teaches is not what the Bible teaches. Case in point, tithing. Their error in this subject alone should be more than enough to convince the sheep they can't just accept what pop theologians through the centuries say just because they are theologians.

Speaking of the church as a whole, we are not Bereans. We prefer to be spoon fed the doctrines that we find attractive. And after those spoon fed doctrines get passed down from generation to generation they become more and more corrupted from even what they were in the beginning. This is a problem in the church. A BIG problem. I've written it off, though, as the prophesied falling away that is to occur just before Christ returns.

 

[Judges1318]

here you have falsly accused what is not true

osas does not in any shape or form believe this. You sir are in sin.

Stop with your accusations.
Preacher4truth listed some of the teachers of the Freegrace osas movement that teaches that the believer does not have to live for Christ in any way or even continue to believe in Him to be saved when He returns.

 

[EleventhHour]

unbiased reader

Sorry but this is quite funny!!