Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
E
EleventhHour
Guest
Not according to Matthew 18:23-35
That's right.
You won't be lost again because of some kind of fumbling on His part.
You may be lost again because you don't care about Christ and His forgiveness anymore and you go back to the world or back to some other perceived source of justification.
That is true.
But He has made His ways known to us in regard to loss of salvation.
The gift of forgiveness can and will be revoked in the kingdom of God by the Father (Matthew 18:23,35).
If this is true, it applies to you as well. No peace. No certainty of the future. You really have no idea if you will be saved.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
And trying to convince the rest of us to be live in insecurity..... tragic
the man whose debts were forgiven but who did not in turn forgive others is not representative of the reborn who are given eternal life. he is representative of someone who receives the word but does not take it to heart. a person who is not changed
when Jesus prayed forgive them, they do not know what they are doing -- did that make all Israel & Rome saved?
no - we are talking about the other 9 lepers who were cleansed, not the 1 of 10 who came back to praise Him, and was made whole.
And we all know gifts can't be driven off cliffs.
Here's what the Bible says about that using the vernacular of the day:
"19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith." - 1 Timothy 1:19
Holding on to faith, not rejecting it.
Faith that is shipwrecked.
Hmm.....doesn't jibe very well with osas.
I mean the original osas that everyone went scurrying back to when preacher4truth exposed the existence of the new osas that everyone denied they were pushing.
Exactly right! Those who are unforgiving from the heart in such small matters show they are unfit to receive God’s ultimate forgiveness. Failure to forgive in such a small matter shows that this person has not fully embraced God’s grace and forgiveness, hence the term, "wicked servant," which is not descriptive of a genuine believer.
Yep.
That's what Calvin's version of osas teaches.
In that version of osas you know you have genuine faith and are saved by if you endure to the very end.
But until then there's always tomorrow to show you haven't really believed all along after all.
And that's supposed to be the doctrine of security and assurance.
In Biblical doctrine, every presently believing person has peace and certainty and has every idea that he is saved and will be saved.
Only a fool would turn away from faith in Christ and lose all that.
The man asked for forgiveness...no....begged for forgiveness and received it.
The Master took that forgiveness away.
Are we to make this yet another passage that doesn't really mean what it says?
Of course you would say this. Nobody who thinks this way believes it could happen to them.
.
He already had the Master's 'ultimate' forgiveness.
What he was showing is that he was unfit to keep God's forgiveness.
He's got crappy soil.
He does not have a good and noble heart, yet God forgave him anyway.
He really was forgiven.
Enough of these special osas interpretations that make so many passages of scripture not really mean what they say.
What are you talking about?
He already had the Master's 'ultimate' forgiveness.
What he was showing is that he was unfit to keep God's forgiveness.
He's got crappy soil.
He does not have a good and noble heart, yet God forgave him anyway.
He really was forgiven.
Enough of these special osas interpretations that make so many passages of scripture not really mean what they say.
That's not what I said.
Do you think the Bible says we are not to fear being cut out of the tree?
It does, and that warning in no way negates the peace and joy and surety of the believer staying safely behind the guardrail between them and falling away in unbelief.
"holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected" - 1 Timothy 1:19
We already discussed this and I don’t recall you answering my questions in post #131,008. You only see what you want to see in that parable and you miss the big picture.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-6550
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-6551
This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.
(1 Timothy 1:18-20 nkjv)
note that the admonition to Timothy to keep the faith is in order to fight well, not to remain saved.note also that those he speaks of having 'suffered shipwreck' he personally names, and he says he has delivered them to Satan in order to learn something. identical language & intent here:
deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
(1 Corinthians 5:5)
note that this is not having to do with salvation being lost -- but 'destruction of the flesh' that, as with Hymenaeus & Alexander, has an edifying intent. about this one in Corinth it is specifically said 'that his spirit may be saved' - because the identity, the personhood of a man, is not his flesh: it is his spirit, his soul - this isn't delivering to Satan Satan's children, but handing over a son to be chastised. the Lord chastens his sons; this is rehabilitative, not penal. it's not about losing salvation. it's about being taught to walk wisely, as is fit for one who has been made a son of light.
Being cut off from the good olive tree simply means God is done dealing with Gentiles. There will come a time when the Gentiles are cut off and He resumes His program for the nation of Israel.