So many anti charismatic smear jobs allowed?

[Absolutely]

Jesus did say that False Prophets would look like sheep, be able to work miracles and show signs, but they would produce bad fruits of the Spirit. He then goes onto say they will be the ones who build their house upon the sands and be destroyed.

Now reread what I just wrote.

This also means, there will be good Prophets who do the same, but they build their house upon the "Rock!"

If I was a betting man, I would bet that only 3 out of every 10 Prophet is good. The others will be those on "Judgement Day" who claim, but I did miracles and cast out demons in Your Name. And of course, Jesus will reply back, I never knew you, depart from me.

I realize this is much to consider here. But what I desire for you to grasp is those 3 of the 10 that are Good Prophets. Because, if you end up lumping the good with the false in one batch, You will be going against God and what He said. The problem with the most of us in life, is that once we figure out who is bad, we never look for who is good. We simply go directly to assumption. And we all know the true meaning to when we "assume."

This means, because Jesus said it, there are Good Prophets who are currently ministering right this moment in time and you can see "Miracles, Wonders, Signs, good fruits, and they have built their house upon the Rock."

But that leaves the million dollar question, Are YOU able to tell who is who?

You won't be if you assume everyone with signs, wonders, miracles are automatically "false Prophets." And that is my point ultimately within this thread.

Exactly.

In fact,it is so rare that I have come across anyone that is satanic,that was not obvious in their bad fruit,countenance, demeanor, attitude,and vile.

Things in the spirit are night and day....darkness and light contrasted.
Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice"

The anti charismatic stalkers
Practically own the falsehood that things are spooky and demons ALWAYS manifest as an angel of light.
Their main "discernment",rolleyes, is in that realm.

IOW their entire deal is ACTUALLY their own deception.

They live in deception.

Unbelievable irony.

 

[garee]

I guess these people speaking "the new tongue, the gospel" are just mocking and self-edifying.

If its God speaking as prophecy how could mankind be edifying there own-self.

Self edifying that mocks God is when a noise without meaning is made and to complete it fall backward. Two steps.

 

[Absolutely]

1. Please note that John was already "in the Spirit" on the Lord's Day at the time that he heard the voice of Christ. And when John fell at the feet of Christ he FELL FORWARDS at His feet, not backwards. He turned after hearing the voice, saw Christ is all His glory and majesty, and prostrated himself. All those who fell to the ground to worship God or Christ prostrated themselves by falling on their faces and facing forward. But they did not remain lying on their backs on the ground for an extended period.

2. The next thing to note is that that was a vision to an apostle-prophet. The prophet Daniel had similar visions and he too fell forward: Now as he was speaking with me [Daniel], I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. (Dan 8:18).

3. Those who venture to be *slain by the Spirit* are prepared to have a preacher strike them on the forehead and receive some kind of electrical shock (like the use of a taser). Perhaps some are there for being healed. But they all fall backwards.

4. Before Christ was taken captive, those who were His enemies approached Him as if He was just another evildoer. Instead when Jesus said that He is "I AM" they fell BACKWARDS in shock, awe, and fear, not forwards to receive a vision or a blessing.

JOHN 18
4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon Him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
5 They answered Him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I AM [he.] And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
6 As soon then as He had said unto them, I AM [he], they went backward, and fell to the ground. [Note: "he" should not have been inserted by the translators, and I AM should have been capitalized]

JOHN GILL'S COMMENTARY
As soon then as he had said unto them I am he,.... Immediately upon his speaking these words, which were delivered with so much majesty and authority, and were attended with such a divine power: they went backward, and fell to the ground; they were confounded, surprised, and intimidated, and seemed as if they would have chose rather to have fled from him, than to have apprehended him; and as they retired and went backward, they fainted away, as it were, either at the majesty of his looks, or at the power of his words, or both, so that they became like dead men, falling to the ground....

Which means that that is the experience of Christ's enemies in the Bible, not His friends, or His disciples. Had God planned to rescue Christ those men would have been dead right there.

""All those who fell to the ground to worship God or Christ prostrated themselves by falling on their faces and facing forward. But they did not remain lying on their backs on the ground for an extended period.""

Lol
There was no angel with a stopwatch then or now.

Enter referee yellow flag
"In fraction! Infraction! "
What? What's wrong?
"Laying on floor past the 30 second mark"
Sit in foyer for 45 minutes.
Say 50 hail marys.

The law obeyrrs put the law into every little matter.

Infraction! Infraction!
What?
"You prayed for that blind man without making mud spitballs and smearing them on eyes"
"We now have to erase the healing"

"The letter killeth,but the spirit giveth life"
Thank you Jesus for your power...and for doing all kinds of things DIFFERENTLY to grow the skeptic into a tail chasing confusion

 

[garee]

Yes, we all know it requires faith but put faith in what?

Faith of God.The work of His labor of love.

 

[Dino246]

If its God speaking as prophecy how could mankind be edifying there own-self.

Self edifying that mocks God is when a noise without meaning is made and to complete it fall backward. Two steps.

Which is it? Is the one "speaking in tongues" speaking prophecy, or mocking God? You advocate both; you decide.

 

[Absolutely]

Participation in Charismatic meetings could be dangerous to your mental, emotional, and spiritual well being. Not to mention all the false doctrines which are also promoted. Christ expects Christians to simply worship in Spirit and in truth. So if truth is absent, one cannot expect the Spirit to be present.

Let's take the case of Benny Hinn, an icon of the Charismatic Movement.

Benny Hinn’s Nephew Discusses the Excesses and Errors of His Uncle’s Ministry

...While in college, Costi reveals the lavish lifestyle his uncle kept while traveling the world to preach his prosperity gospel...

...He recalls that his uncle would promise that everyone would be healed at each gathering, but confesses that was never the case...

...He remembers his uncle’s unfulfilled prophecies as well...

...“[Costi said] One of the cruelest lies of faith healers today is that if you just have enough faith, God will heal. He [Costi] begins to commentate that God is sovereign in healing,” he says...

https://relevantmagazine.com/culture/benny-hinns-nephew-discusses-excesses-errors-uncles-ministry/

A fired spoiled brat attacks his former employer and you fell for it.

Next smear please.
Heaven is so proud of gossip.
Your award awaits you.
Dont complain come "payday"

 

[Absolutely]

I am neither charismatic nor non-charismatic. I have seen lots of debate on this forum concerning the theological views of both, and I have seen those debates become heated. I think both camps mischaracterize the other camp pretty severally. Those mischaracterizations are due to 2 main things. One, the radicals of each group do fulfill and fuel those ideas, and 2 people don't care to hear out the other person in full.
I personally think that cesationists and charismatics are seriously misunderstanding the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Now mind you I am generally speaking, not overly categorizing any individual.

...a person would never know it since you pitch your tent in the cessationist camp
...complete with hundreds of cyber backslaps from every cessationist member.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I am neither charismatic nor non-charismatic. I have seen lots of debate on this forum concerning the theological views of both, and I have seen those debates become heated. I think both camps mischaracterize the other camp pretty severally. Those mischaracterizations are due to 2 main things. One, the radicals of each group do fulfill and fuel those ideas, and 2 people don't care to hear out the other person in full.
I personally think that cesationists and charismatics are seriously misunderstanding the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Now mind you I am generally speaking, not overly categorizing any individual.

yes and this is a forum

glad you are not overly categorizing any individual

having sojourned in both camps, I prefer those who are not cessationists

there is a warmth and a reality and connection in the Spirit I rarely if ever sense with Bible thumpers and I am not calling you a Bible thumper

 

[7seasrekeyed]

When the Ashdodites arose early the next morning, behold, Dagon had fallen on his face to the ground before the ark of the LORD So they took Dagon and set him in his place again. I Samuel 5:3

so the idol fell forward and not backward as Nehemiah tries to state that evil goes backwards and good goes forwards

next

 

[garee]

Exactly.

In fact,it is so rare that I have come across anyone that is satanic,that was not obvious in their bad fruit,countenance, demeanor, attitude,and vile.

Things in the spirit are night and day....darkness and light contrasted.
Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice"

The anti charismatic stalkers
Practically own the falsehood that things are spooky and demons ALWAYS manifest as an angel of light.
Their main "discernment",rolleyes, is in that realm.

IOW their entire deal is ACTUALLY their own deception.

They live in deception.

Unbelievable irony.

Exactly.

In fact,it is so rare that I have come across anyone that is satanic,that was not obvious in their bad fruit,countenance, demeanor, attitude,and vile.

Things in the spirit are night and day....darkness and light contrasted.
Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice"

The anti charismatic stalkers
Practically own the falsehood that things are spooky and demons ALWAYS manifest as an angel of light.
Their main "discernment",rolleyes, is in that realm.

IOW their entire deal is ACTUALLY their own deception.

They live in deception.

Unbelievable irony.

Its is really not all the difficult to believe the Bible .

Perhaps those who roll-eyes are trusting the word of God rather than this oral tradition of mocking God. . making a noise without meaning and falling backward .Claiming they are slain in the spirit. . .Why anyone would want others to believe they are under the judgment of God as a good thing is a mystery ?.

Rolling eyes is not as sign for self edifying. There is none for that . Rolling eyes is not a approval ceremonial law .

If those who make a noise and fall backward would just look to the foundation of the Tongues in Isiah 28 Then they can understanding the law redefined in 1 Corinthians 14 : 21-22. According to the law "yet for all that revealing" of the Holy Spirit they still would rather listen to men and not the voice of God. Having destroyed the foundation.

Its any thing goes .Have a self edifying wonderment have Holy laughter or Holy crying.... fall back and try dying (slain in the spirit)

In the law (Isaiah 28) it is written, With men of other tongues many (languages) and other lips (other prophets) will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 1 Corinthians 14 : 21

The true hearing test .

Are they still making noises without meaning and falling backward to finish off the work of self edifying?

I would thing they would be silent during the gathering using the tools designed for the ceremony(1 Corinthians 11) and make noises without meaning at home. And make sure someone is behind them when they fall backward.

 

[notuptome]

A fired spoiled brat attacks his former employer and you fell for it.

Next smear please.
Heaven is so proud of gossip.
Your award awaits you.
Dont complain come "payday"

You could be just a tiny bit judgmental.

I'm still waiting for you to clarify the half a gospel comment you made earlier.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

I remember once in particular, being alone at home...years back now...as I was praying and worshiping, I could not stand anymore and went backwards onto my bed. I was overcome by God's glory

I guess in your economy, I must be of the devil

the cessationist business is not from God

and most thankfully, MOST THANKFULLY, no one has to accept what you cranky old men have to say...you...Roger...mr united with Christ and several others on here who basically do NOT even believe what the Bible says and worse, you prevent others from seeking God

I have NEVER sought an experience. I ONLY seek God but God does grant to some who seek Him a glimpse into His eternal Spirit

I would say shame on you...but that's just cliche

Falling backward on a bed? Is that a proper way of experiencing slain if the Spirit?. Did you make a noise without meaning before you fell? I make noises without meaning when I rise.

 

[garee]

5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
^
NOWHERE does it claim it was out of fear, but from the power of Jesus being "I AM."

I will agree to disagree with you on this because if it was out of fear the BIBLE has no problem making that claim. When it does not make that claim then it is only an assumption on your belief system.

What kind of fear? The fear that causes judgement shown by those who "fall backward"? It is A metaphor used throughout the Bible to indicate no faith, no salvation. Fall backward, as break the neck as when hung like when Judas hung himself

Genesis lays the foundation.Using Dan (God is Judge) showing the effect of poison used to represent the Antichrist. as false doctrine.

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

It is used to rebuke those who serve another gospel falling back in judgement

Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

It is shown as judgement as falsehood .Poison of serpents or adder

Isaiah 59:13-15 King James Version (KJV) In transgressing and lying against the Lord, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.

Backward as in faithless backsliders the un redeemed. .

Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

it is shown with Eli

1 Samuel 4:18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Falling back or backward breaking one neck used to indicate no faith . Calling fire down from heaven is another metaphor as the spirit of judgement.

Fire works two ways.

Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

One third with three denoting the end of a matter (.333) used to represent those not under the judgement of God . 666 2/3 for those who do fall backward.

2 Kings 1:11-13 King James Version (KJV) Again also he sent unto him another captain of fifty with his fifty. And he answered and said unto him, O man of God, thus hath the king said, Come down quickly. And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. And he sent again a captain of the third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight.

Nor one positive though of falling backward as some sort of tradition of God. It becomes a sign against those who go above all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

 

[Locoponydirtman]

yes and this is a forum

glad you are not overly categorizing any individual

having sojourned in both camps, I prefer those who are not cessationists

there is a warmth and a reality and connection in the Spirit I rarely if ever sense with Bible thumpers and I am not calling you a Bible thumper

Im not even a cessationism either.
There is a ditch on both sides of the road. Some folks have jumped the ditch and run off in the field, the rest will all sort out when Jesus comes and sets it straight.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

...a person would never know it since you pitch your tent in the cessationist camp
...complete with hundreds of cyber backslaps from every cessationist member.

I think we may be miscommunicating.
If you can show me where I have pitched my tent in cessationism. I will gladly explain my statements. I did one the say I lean toward cessationism, but please let me qualify that by saying that I don't think the gifts of the spirit are exactly what the popular charismatic position claims, but The Holy Spirit is still in business, and he still works through his people.

 

[biker]

So what about us now? Do we believe in Jesus death and resurrection as well as try to keep the law as well?

hahahahaha OK,

We most definitely believe in the Death-Burial-Resurrection of Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior!
The "Law?"
Well, there are good things about it we could apply to our lives but we as Gentiles have "never" been held to the "Law." So, it's useless to even be concerned about it.

 

[biker]

What kind of fear? The fear that causes judgement shown by those who "fall backward"? It is A metaphor used throughout the Bible to indicate no faith, no salvation. Fall backward, as break the neck as when hung like when Judas hung himself

Genesis lays the foundation.Using Dan (God is Judge) showing the effect of poison used to represent the Antichrist. as false doctrine.

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

It is used to rebuke those who serve another gospel falling back in judgement

Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

It is shown as judgement as falsehood .Poison of serpents or adder

Isaiah 59:13-15 King James Version (KJV) In transgressing and lying against the Lord, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.

Backward as in faithless backsliders the un redeemed. .

Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

it is shown with Eli

1 Samuel 4:18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Falling back or backward breaking one neck used to indicate no faith . Calling fire down from heaven is another metaphor as the spirit of judgement.

Fire works two ways.

Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

One third with three denoting the end of a matter (.333) used to represent those not under the judgement of God . 666 2/3 for those who do fall backward.

2 Kings 1:11-13 King James Version (KJV) Again also he sent unto him another captain of fifty with his fifty. And he answered and said unto him, O man of God, thus hath the king said, Come down quickly. And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. And he sent again a captain of the third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight.

Nor one positive though of falling backward as some sort of tradition of God. It becomes a sign against those who go above all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

You can add a billion scripture to hope your views are correct. But the absolute "TRUTH" of the matter is the Holy Spirit "did not" instruct both Matthew and Mark to say these men were fearful. These were Centurions who are 10,000 times the man you and I both could ever be in facing fears on our own account. Just accept it, YOU ARE WRONG!!

 

[Locoponydirtman]

hahahahaha OK,

We most definitely believe in the Death-Burial-Resurrection of Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior!
The "Law?"
Well, there are good things about it we could apply to our lives but we as Gentiles have "never" been held to the "Law." So, it's useless to even be concerned about it.

To us who believe, the law of the new covenant is written in our heart. Not tablets of stone but the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dino246]

What kind of fear? The fear that causes judgement shown by those who "fall backward"? It is A metaphor used throughout the Bible to indicate no faith, no salvation. Fall backward, as break the neck as when hung like when Judas hung himself

Genesis lays the foundation.Using Dan (God is Judge) showing the effect of poison used to represent the Antichrist. as false doctrine.

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

It is used to rebuke those who serve another gospel falling back in judgement

Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

It is shown as judgement as falsehood .Poison of serpents or adder

Isaiah 59:13-15 King James Version (KJV) In transgressing and lying against the Lord, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.

Backward as in faithless backsliders the un redeemed. .

Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

it is shown with Eli

1 Samuel 4:18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Falling back or backward breaking one neck used to indicate no faith . Calling fire down from heaven is another metaphor as the spirit of judgement.

Fire works two ways.

Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

One third with three denoting the end of a matter (.333) used to represent those not under the judgement of God . 666 2/3 for those who do fall backward.

2 Kings 1:11-13 King James Version (KJV) Again also he sent unto him another captain of fifty with his fifty. And he answered and said unto him, O man of God, thus hath the king said, Come down quickly. And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. And he sent again a captain of the third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight.

Nor one positive though of falling backward as some sort of tradition of God. It becomes a sign against those who go above all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

Garee, after you take a class in basic written English, please take a class in biblical hermeneutics. Your ideas, which you have apparently arrived at without the input of any sound instruction, and to which you hold stubbornly, are deeply flawed and mostly inconsistent with the whole counsel of Scripture.

Do you even attend a Christian church regularly?

 

[garee]

Garee, after you take a class in basic written English, please take a class in biblical hermeneutics. Your ideas, which you have apparently arrived at without the input of any sound instruction, and to which you hold stubbornly, are deeply flawed and mostly inconsistent with the whole counsel of Scripture.

Do you even attend a Christian church regularly?

Thanks Your sound instruction or as it is written??

Yes regularly and commune daily with other brothers and sisters from other sects. We are the temple of God. Its what apologist do defend the faith of Christ that works in to defend us. We are to put the whole armor of God and keep it on. Like a shield it shield us from the false gospel . Where and when men literalize the signified understanding. . taking way the unseen eternal gospel understanding .as if the kingdom of God did come by looking at the things seen the temporal .

I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ .It as it is written is the power that works in us who do have the faith of Christ.

By that work we can believe him who has no form

Did you have a question? You would make a great English teacher.

What are the proper hermeneutic tools needed to find the spiritual of understanding hid in parables as prophecy our new tongue?