So many anti charismatic smear jobs allowed?

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garee

Banned
#301
Mar 28, 2016
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#301
Guojing said:
A simple summary:
  • Before the cross, faith + keeping the law was necessary for the Jews to be saved, Gentiles were totally left out unless they become Jews
  • After the cross, faith in Jesus's dbr is all that is required for both Jews and Gentiles to be saved
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You cannot keep the law that has pronounced judgement as to the letter, death. There was no work any man could do to get himself saved . Faith is a work that Christ works in us to both will give us his desire and then empower us to do it. Men in the old testament were saved by hearing the gospel as it worked in them.
 
G

garee

Banned
#302
Mar 28, 2016
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#302
biker said:
When Christ died upon the Cross, the Father issued Mercy unto the Jews and Grace unto the Gentiles. That made both Jew and Gentile equal in all things going forward when pertaining to what is required for Salvation.
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Why divide the corruptible as in dead Jews from the corruptible gentiles? Is there a hope in their flesh? Jesus said his flesh profits for nothing.

Do you think God is a respecter of persons or flesh ?

What is the foundation for that kind of doctrine or is not not a doctrine of God but rather a oral tradition of men ?

Which nation was it before the Jew was put together .( Amorite with a Hittite.)

Amorite? Hittite ? German?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#303
Jun 30, 2015
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#303
garee said:
You cannot keep the law that has pronounced judgement as to the letter, death. There was no work any man could do to get himself saved . Faith is a work that Christ works in us to both will give us his desire and then empower us to do it. Men in the old testament were saved by hearing the gospel as it worked in them.
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How could someone in the old testament times hear "the gospel" when Jesus had not even been born, let alone died and resurrected?
 
G

garee

Banned
#304
Mar 28, 2016
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#304
Dino246 said:
How could someone in the old testament times hear "the gospel" when Jesus had not even been born, let alone died and resurrected?
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Jesus is the lamb of God slain from before the foundation of the world (the good news) By the hearing of faith working in Abel. Abel believed God (good news) and was sent as a Apostle to prophecy to Cain . He is also the first recorded martyr.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#305
Jun 30, 2015
25,404
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#305
garee said:
Jesus is the lamb of God slain from before the foundation of the world (the good news) By the hearing of faith working in Abel. Abel believed God (good news) and was sent as a Apostle to prophecy to Cain . He is also the first recorded martyr.
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You didn't even begin to answer my question.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#306
Jan 12, 2019
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#306
biker said:
^ if that what you posted = Acts 2 dispensationalist, then I would say I am that.
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Out of curiosity, how would you reconcile why Ananias and Sapphira were killed by God for lying in Acts 5? Didn't they also believe in Jesus's DBR before that?
 
B

biker

Banned
#307
Apr 5, 2020
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#307
Guojing said:
Out of curiosity, how would you reconcile why Ananias and Sapphira were killed by God for lying in Acts 5? Didn't they also believe in Jesus's DBR before that?
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They lied to the Holy Spirit directly.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#308
Jan 12, 2019
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#308
biker said:
They lied to the Holy Spirit directly.
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You mean none of us lie to God directly now? If we were saved by faith apart from works, I can still be killed by God if I lie to him?
 
B

biker

Banned
#309
Apr 5, 2020
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#309
Guojing said:
You mean none of us lie to God directly now? If we were saved by faith apart from works, I can still be killed by God if I lie to him?
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Ultimately, lying to God is lying to yourself. Your death might not come immediately, but it will eventually come.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#310
Jan 12, 2019
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#310
biker said:
Ultimately, lying to God is lying to yourself. Your death might not come immediately, but it will eventually come.
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That is the problem I have with those who believe the gospel of grace began at Pentecost, or Acts 2.

It does not gel with that happened in Acts 5. What happened to the 2 of them contradicted what the gospel of grace preached. It is more inline with the Law of Moses.
 
B

biker

Banned
#311
Apr 5, 2020
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#311
Guojing said:
That is the problem I have with those who believe the gospel of grace began at Pentecost, or Acts 2.

It does not gel with that happened in Acts 5. What happened to the 2 of them contradicted what the gospel of grace preached. It is more inline with the Law of Moses.
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Which is why I think if you Preach Grace, it is way too easy for someone to think they have a license to sin. And much of why I tend to go by what God in the flesh said over Paul.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#312
Jan 12, 2019
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#312
biker said:
Which is why I think if you Preach Grace, it is way too easy for someone to think they have a license to sin. And much of why I tend to go by what God in the flesh said over Paul.
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There is no licence to sin with grace, there will be natural consequences if you sin. for example, when you commit adultery, your wife may end up divorcing you.

The main difference is that under grace, God is no longer angry with you when you sin. There is no consequence from God because Jesus took that away. God will not strike you dead, just because you lied to him or when you commit adultery.
 
B

biker

Banned
#313
Apr 5, 2020
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#313
Guojing said:
There is no licence to sin with grace, there will be natural consequences if you sin. for example, when you commit adultery, your wife may end up divorcing you.

The main difference is that under grace, God is no longer angry with you when you sin. There is no consequence from God because Jesus took that away. God will not strike you dead, just because you lied to him or when you commit adultery.
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You aren't much of a follower of Christ if you still want to lie and commit adultery. I am sure even God won't think highly of you for choosing as such, Grace or not.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#314
Jan 12, 2019
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#314
biker said:
You aren't much of a follower of Christ if you still want to lie and commit adultery. I am sure even God won't think highly of you for choosing as such, Grace or not.
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You are missing the point, under grace, you are not a robot. God does not take away your free choice.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#316
Jan 12, 2019
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#316
biker said:
My previous answer still depicts "Free Will" 100%
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God only sees the righteousness of Jesus in you, that is what imputed righteousness means.

It does not mean one should go ahead and sin, that is a totally different point.
 
B

biker

Banned
#317
Apr 5, 2020
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#317
Guojing said:
God only sees the righteousness of Jesus in you, that is what imputed righteousness means.

It does not mean one should go ahead and sin, that is a totally different point.
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Yes, and part of why I gave the answer I did. I rather not always be thinking that committing a sin is ok because I have the "Grace of God."
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#318
Jan 12, 2019
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#318
biker said:
Yes, and part of why I gave the answer I did. I rather not always be thinking that committing a sin is ok because I have the "Grace of God."
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So back to the point about Ananias and Sapphira, if they had the same imputed righteousness in Acts 5, why would God put them to death for their sin of lying? Didn't God see Jesus's righteousness in them too?

You cannot see the theological issue there?
 
B

biker

Banned
#319
Apr 5, 2020
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#319
Guojing said:
So back to the point about Ananias and Sapphira, if they had the same imputed righteousness in Acts 5, why would God put them to death for their sin of lying? Didn't God see Jesus's righteousness in them too?

You cannot see the theological issue there?
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1. They were doing it for show (LOOK, we sold, made money, now giving it to the new established Church)
2. They only gave half trying to deceive Peter
3. They were not sincere in their walk in God

Honestly, I don't believe they were "saved" to begin with and Scripture does not indicate they were ever saved. And the other man named Ananias is specifically called a Disciple. In my opinion, Ananias and Sapphira were never saved.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#320
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#320
biker said:
1. They were doing it for show (LOOK, we sold, made money, now giving it to the new established Church)
2. They only gave half trying to deceive Peter
3. They were not sincere in their walk in God

Honestly, I don't believe they were "saved" to begin with and Scripture does not indicate they were ever saved. And the other man named Ananias is specifically called a Disciple. In my opinion, Ananias and Sapphira were never saved.
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Yes, my senior pastor, who is also acts 2 dispy, have the same doctrine as you, that A&S were never saved in the first place.

That is a very popular way to hold the doctrine that the grace dispensation began at Acts 2, and yet reconcile the events in Acts 5.
 
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