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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
It is his blood that washes us and makes us white as snow
Can you tell me how the just judge will judge and justify?
This also is clearly written in Romans 3
Please review
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
No one has obeyed the law
that is why everyone who is under law is cursed
does the mercy seat on the holy of holys and the blood sprinkling once a year mean anything to you
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Who added requirements?
Romans 3:
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 5:
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
There are more theologies than protestant and Catholic. When it comes to issues like this my theology tends to be closer to Orthodox than anyone else.
You are, because the idea behind hilasmos there is that His blood destroyed sin not that it absolved guilt. You're adding the requirement that I also seek to place my unrighteousness on His shoulders so that He would suffer for it rather than recognizing and being in awe that God could forgive me for such. I trust in His blood to purify me and give me right standing before my King.
Romans 5 contradicts your above post:
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Orthodox from what I gather are just catholic minus the pope.
its sad you think your righteousness will be so high that Jesus will let you in.
You're importing something onto the text that is not present. The idea of justification in Romans is not that of a court of law, but one of a king's court. Justification is not forensic but a matter of purity. If you are in Christ the blood cleanses you.
And it's sad that you think nobody understood grace until Martin Luther.
No sir...you just assumed that everyone but you are freely taking the gift of GOD as some sort of free license to sin,..
to be just when HE judges and the justifier of all whose faith is in Jesus...thatś just my quick remembrance of the scripture.
However, if you google it, youĺl be pointed to the EXACT scripture in Romans 3
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EleventhHour
Guest
Oh sorry, I did not think you would take me seriously
.....
a little social experiment
I am sure you have...again i do apologize.
When have I denied that it is through Christ that many are made righteous? He is the door, the author, and perfecter of the faith. What I deny is the unBiblical idea of vicarious guilt/punishment. After all:
“But if a man is righteous and practices justice and righteousness, 6 and does not eat at the mountain shrines or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, or defile his neighbor’s wife or approach a woman during her menstrual period— 7 if a man does not oppress anyone, but restores to the debtor his pledge, does not commit robbery, but gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with clothing, 8 if he does not lend money on interest or take increase, if he keeps his hand from iniquity and executes true justice between man and man, 9 if he walks in My statutes and My ordinances so as to deal faithfully—he is righteous and will surely live,” declares the Lord God.
10 “Then he may [g]have a violent son who sheds blood and who does any of these things to a brother 11 (though he himself did not do any of these things), that is, he even eats at the mountain shrines, and defiles his neighbor’s wife, 12 oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore a pledge, but lifts up his eyes to the idols and commits abomination, 13 he lends money on interest and takes increase; will he live? He will not live! He has committed all these abominations, he will surely be put to death; his blood will be [h]on his own head.
14 “Now behold, he [i]has a son who has observed all his father’s sins which he committed, and observing does not do likewise. 15 He does not eat at the mountain shrines or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, or defile his neighbor’s wife, 16 or oppress anyone, or retain a pledge, or commit robbery, but he gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with clothing, 17 he keeps his hand from [j]the poor, does not take interest or increase, but executes My ordinances, and walks in My statutes; he will not die for his father’s iniquity, he will surely live. 18 As for his father, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was not good among his people, behold, he will die for his iniquity.
19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. 20 The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
I thought that the Bible said everybody deserved wrath. (But God endured the vessels of wrath)
And nobody deserved mercy (that's why it's called grace).
Deserving implies earning and that underlying concept of earning that comes through here and there is why you're being opposed. I honestly don't think you're doing it purposely. I'm just saying how it reads.