Not By Works

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miknik5 said:
I am looking to the blood of the SON OF GOD...
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And I am looking to the son Himself. My faith is in the God that created this world and He leads me in His ways. It is my full duty to be obedient to Him.

"
Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil. "
 
Bbrdrd said:
We are agreed it is faith in Christ that is righteousness, but your faith doesn't seem to be in Christ to me. Otherwise the modest proposition that you live according to that belief would not be so offensive to you. You're looking to the blood of an innocent man to absolve you of guilt, not recognizing your own culpability and need to obey. It seems to me you are trying to continue doing what you want rather than hearkening to the faith that is perfected in works. Your faith, instead, seems to be in an event. A critical event, mind you, but an event none the less.
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what is that faith sir then...what do you consider faith in CHRIST...faith in HIS WORK...or faith in doing the works like this innocent man did as your righteousness before GOD?
 
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miknik5 said:
what is that faith sir then...what do you consider faith in CHRIST...faith in HIS WORK...or faith in doing the works like this innocent man did as your righteousness before GOD?
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Faith is the placing of trust into the source of righteousness. It is listening to the voice of God and trusting Him to be your Shepherd.

O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless? 21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did
 
Bbrdrd said:
And I am looking to the son Himself. My faith is in the God that created this world and He leads me in His ways. It is my full duty to be obedient to Him.

"
Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil. "
Click to expand...

When a man believes in ME, they believe not only in ME, but the ONE WHO sent ME...therefore their faith is in GOD.

Many profess to have GOD, but deny THE SON, sir...he who denies The SON, denies THE FATHER who sent HIM...these do not believe GODŚ TESTIMONY..

The FATHER has given ALL AUTHORITY to THE SON, that ALL, ALL, ALL are called to honor THE SON, just as they honor THE FATHER who sent HIM...

All thing are being brought into submission under ONE HEAD...CHRIST JESUS, sir.
And HE alone will present back to HIS FATHER, HIS BRIDE/HIS BODY/HIS CHURCH/HIS SHEEP...
 
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miknik5 said:
If your faith is placed in HIM, and HIS blood, why are you implying to others that you are justified by following the law...
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I never said I was justified by the law, I've denied that multiple times. What I have said, repeatedly, is splitting faith and works is unBiblical. There is no division between them, if you have faith in God you will do the works of God.
 
miknik5 said:
Wait..is your faith in HIS blood...are you justified in the sight of GOD by faith in HIS BLOOD...
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Now you're adding requirements. What Romans says is if we believe God raised Him from the dead. It is His resurrection that is central to the apostolic picture of justification.
 
Bbrdrd said:
I never said I was justified by the law, I've denied that multiple times. What I have said, repeatedly, is splitting faith and works is unBiblical. There is no division between them, if you have faith in God you will do the works of God.
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Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Man is saved by faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) yet genuine faith is evidenced by works. (James 2:14-18)
 
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Bbrdrd said:
Now you're adding requirements. What Romans says is if we believe God raised Him from the dead. It is His resurrection that is central to the apostolic picture of justification.
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Please expound Romans 5, specifically 5:9

Thank you
 
Bbrdrd said:
Now you're adding requirements. What Romans says is if we believe God raised Him from the dead. It is His resurrection that is central to the apostolic picture of justification.
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Iḿ not adding the requirement... You are overlookiong what is written...therefore it is you who are taking away but adding your own requirement...
 
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Please also review Romans 3. This is stressed as well in 3 and in 5...
His Blood is what justifies us in the sight of GOD, sir...I am not adding to THE WORD of TRUTH...
 
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Bbrdrd said:
You seem to not understand that Job was declared innocent by God, though both acknowledged he spoke rashly in his suffering. God vindicated Job's words and agreed that he had done nothing deserving of such suffering. There is a difference between living righteously and being absolutely righteous. God knows we are creatures and will not obey perfectly, and has grace for our failings. This is the issue with a lot in the OSAS/grace camps. You deny that there even is such a thing as righteousness, so how could you know your own unrighteousness?
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That is another MADE UP LIE ON YOUR PART. Who is the Father of all lies?

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.

Luke 18:19 (HCSB)
19 “Why do you call Me good?” Jesus asked him. “No one is good but One—God.

Romans 3:12 (HCSB)
12 All have turned away; all alike have become useless. There is no one who does what is good, not even one.

Galatians 5:5 (HCSB)
5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

James 1:20 (HCSB)
20 for man’s anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness.

1 Peter 2:24 (HCSB)
24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that, having died to sins, we might live for righteousness {We are seen as Righteous, NOT because of what we did, but Because of What Christ did on the CROSS, thereby we inherit HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.}; you have been healed by His wounds.
 
mailmandan said:
Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
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That's a doctrine that many teach, but how its understood could make it true or disasterous. One of my objections is justification not being by works of the law does not somehow become justification requires vicarious works of the law. If it means that our faith will lead us naturally to do works, yeah picture it as root/fruit. But many use the idea of faith as an excuse to live their lives any way they see fit. Works is the expression of faith, they are faith made manifest.
 
VCO said:
That is another MADE UP LIE ON YOUR PART. Who is the Father of all lies?

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.

Luke 18:19 (HCSB)
19 “Why do you call Me good?” Jesus asked him. “No one is good but One—God.

Romans 3:12 (HCSB)
12 All have turned away; all alike have become useless. There is no one who does what is good, not even one.

Galatians 5:5 (HCSB)
5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

James 1:20 (HCSB)
20 for man’s anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness.

1 Peter 2:24 (HCSB)
24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that, having died to sins, we might live for righteousness {We are seen as Righteous, NOT because of what we did, but Because of What Christ did on the CROSS, thereby we inherit HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.}; you have been healed by His wounds.
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This is exactly my dispute. It is not Christ's righteousness that we are reckoned with. It is not His obedience vicariously transfered to us. Our faith is reckoned as righteousness because through that faith He will teach us righteousness. We are healed, not vindicated, by the stripes of Christ.
 
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