Is it a sin to drink alcohol

[posthuman]

Don't you think Noah might have erred by drinking to excess? Maybe it was his first experience with alcohol.

the idea that this guy planted a vineyard and made wine without having any previous experience with it is really silly to me.
i think, to the contrary, the fact this is recorded is strong evidence that he had quite a lot of experience keeping vineyards, making wine & enjoying it. he did this on purpose - from growing the grapes to processing them and drawing the wine, and it's pretty unlikely he did so 'accidentally' not knowing what it was he was laboring at. this was a process that took a significant amount of time, to start from scratch as he did. it took know-how and determined labor.
so, the fact that he did this isn't 'proof' that he had been doing this before the flood, on its own, but as a matter of evidence it is an argument 'for' the fact he'd made & drank wine before the flood, not evidence 'against' -- and this is the time period when there can be no doubt cast on the fact that he is righteous, blameless & walking with God.

 

[posthuman]

The greatest thing one can know is that they know nothing. Then they can learn from Him that is learned.

thank you for confessing that i was wise to say 'you aren't as smart as you think' and that you were absolutely in error to call it an ignorant statement.

thank you for commending me for sharing excellent knowledge.
i hope that you are not overwhelmed by the shame of your foolishness
as you said, from this your sin, you have the opportunity to gain understanding of righteousness. may you take it!

 

[posthuman]

I am not saying it was prohibited to drink alcohol, since it is written

6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Prov 31:6-7

I am just saying it in no wise can be considered as righteousness.

Proverbs 31:6 is an imperative command: "give"
is it your opinion that the scripture here is directing the reader to do wickedness or to do righteousness?

what did Jesus do? when you drink of His water - do you remember your poverty? your misery?
who did He save? those ready to perish? those whose hearts are heavy?

every bit of the Bible is about Jesus.
Proverbs 31:6-7 is about Jesus.
is this scripture calling Him righteous or calling Him evil?
is He tempting people to sin or is He leading them in the right way?

 

[lightbearer]

thank you for confessing that i was wise to say 'you aren't as smart as you think' and that you were absolutely in error to call it an ignorant statement.

thank you for commending me for sharing excellent knowledge.
i hope that you are not overwhelmed by the shame of your foolishness
as you said, from this your sin, you have the opportunity to gain understanding of righteousness. may you take it!

Still not?
By all means carry through to the end, it is your desire to be and not what He would have.

What's worse is, one thumbs down. As to build up the I that you are have such a hard time letting go...

 

[posthuman]

Proverbs 31:6 is an imperative command: "give"
is it your opinion that the scripture here is directing the reader to do wickedness or to do righteousness?

what did Jesus do? when you drink of His water - do you remember your poverty? your misery?
who did He save? those ready to perish? those whose hearts are heavy?

every bit of the Bible is about Jesus.
Proverbs 31:6-7 is about Jesus.
is this scripture calling Him righteous or calling Him evil?
is He tempting people to sin or is He leading them in the right way?

the Living Water that gives eternal life is being spoken of in Proverbs as wine & strong drink. it is the same in Proverbs 9, which i've put twice already - wisdom has drawn her meat and wine, and foolishness tempts of stolen bread and water. this is Colossians 2 & John 6 & Isaiah 57 & Psalm 68 & Ephesians 4 & Revelation 19 - it is John 2, the reason that the miracle He displayed at Cana had to be what it is, showing His disciples His glory: because it is perfect, and He does what is perfect; what He does is perfect.

 

[posthuman]

Many things that God made will harm you or even kill you. We shouldn’t consume them.

one day in glory, if He will suffer me to, i will serve you a flagon of the wine He made at Cana, and we will drink it together, and we will know the Truth ♥

how about that? maybe we'll have several flagons; our God is a generous God

 

[John146]

one day in glory, if He will suffer me to, i will serve you a flagon of the wine He made at Cana, and we will drink it together, and we will know the Truth ♥

how about that? maybe we'll have several flagons; our God is a generous God

Sounds good brother.

 

[hornetguy]

Still not?
By all means carry through to the end, it is your desire to be and not what He would have.

What's worse is, one thumbs down. As to build up the I that you are have such a hard time letting go...

I confess.... as you know, I am the one giving you a thumbs down.

You have no justification for implying that Post is not a Christian..... that judgement is WAY above your pay grade, and it cheapens any other possibly relevant comment you might have made.

 

[presidente]

Num 6:3 He shall separate himself from
wine; and
strong drink; and shall drink no
vinegar of wine; or
vinegar of strong drink,neither shall he drink
any liquor of grapes; nor
eat moist grapes, or dried.

It says nothing about the juice from the fruit of the vine.

Numbers 6
6 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When either a man or woman [a]consecrates an offering to take the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the Lord, 3 he shall separate himself from wine and similar drink; he shall drink neither vinegar made from wine nor vinegar made from similar drink; neither shall he drink any grape juice, nor eat fresh grapes or raisins. 4 All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, from seed to skin.
(NKJV)

Please don't tell me that you are a KJV onlyist that thinks the KJV is inspired but not the Hebrew it was translated from.

Take a look at Brown Divers Briggs for mishrah

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/4952.htm
Brown-Driver-Briggs
[מִשְׁרָה] noun feminine juice; — construct מִשְׁרֵת עֲנָבִים Numbers 6:3 (P) the juice of grapes (+ יַיִן, שֵׁכָר).
III. שׁרה (√ of following; compare Arabic

,

, short dart).

Does it even make sense that they couldn't eat grapes, grape wine vinegar, or even raisons, but not fresh grape juice? Why would wine be mentioned with two separate words?

If you are a KJV onlyist, this is a dictionary entry that says what 'liquor' meant in English in 1611.

https://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/liquor.html

"KJV Dictionary Definition: liquor
liquor
LIQ'UOR, n. lik'or L. liquor.

A liquid or fluid substance. See Liquid. Liquor is a word of general signification, extending to water, milk, blood, say, juice, &c.; but its most common application is to spirituous fluids, whether distilled or fermented, to decoctions, solutions, tinctures.

LIQ'UOR, v.t. To moisten; to drench. Little used."

And grape juice would be 'liquor' by that definition. As far as we know, they had not invented distillation of liquor in Biblical times.

 

[presidente]

By your standards, we could include tomato juice.. "rightly dividing" as you so strongly insist upon, means that you take a word or phrase as it was used when it was spoken.... NOT what it could have morphed into over centuries. When first century people spoke of the fruit of the vine, they ALL knew it was grapes.

I heard a couple of missionaries in Indonesia discuss the topic of using tomato juice, since grapes were rare among poor villagers and tomatoes were common. Using tomato juice would be cheaper and more 'reproducible.'

But the Bali grape would probably have grown on Java. It's just sour.

 

[presidente]

Vinegar and wine are two distinct liquids, and gall is bile, human waste.

But you got it right about who delivered him up to be crucified according to John 19:11

I know the Romans were cruel, but subjecting victims of crucifixion to cannibalism? I hadn't heard of that? They can get bile from animals, too.

 

[presidente]

But the juice from the fruit of the vine could include a number of fruits, not just grapes.

The vow of the Nazarite would not have precluded drinking grape juice.

It was the custom to drink wine for the Passover seder. The Corinthians drank something with alcoholic beverages in their meetings, but they erred in overindulgence, depriving some who came, and not tarrying for one another.

Biblically, is there any reason at all to think moderate consumption of alcohol is forbidden, aside from vowing not to do so? Why is excess of wine condemned if excess is not the issues? Why are deacons not to be given to much wine if even a little were forbidden? Why would the Pharisees accuse Jesus of being a grape-juice-bibber instead of a wine bibber? Does that make sense?

 

[presidente]

Do you believe a head severed can be reattached via prayer? I don’t. I don’t doubt God, I doubt ppl’s application of James 5:13-16.

I heard a testimony from an Indonesian man from Timor. I am glad I was not called to translate that week because I am not used to that accent and I could only get about 80 or 90% of what he said. He was at the Dulous Bible school on Java when Muslim radicals attached. Dr. Rudi Hutosoit laid hands on him and prayed for him, and he recovered.

The strange thing is what his injury was-- his neck being severed, about 75% of it, not the throat, but the back, where the spine was.

I had heard of Rudi Hutosoit before. He had started Partai Damai Sejahtera, the True Peace Party, an Indonesian Christian political party, probably the first, and ran for president as its head on year. This was in a parliamentary system, so he did not come near to making the second round. He was also well-known for the Dulous center for training missionaries in some Christian circles. And he's Batak, so I was familiar with his name.

Before he was prayed for, he was considered to be a goner. Medically, it did not make sense that he would have recovered. But of course, with God all things are possible.

By the way, if you read other passages, God is also able to raise the dead.

 

[presidente]

oddly enough, there happens to be a correlation in the actual specific individuals here.

I'd imagine you would have to believe pretty strongly in your church tradition and the idea that your preacher has got it right to hold to either position.

 

[presidente]

I am not saying it was prohibited to drink alcohol, since it is written

6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Prov 31:6-7

I am just saying it in no wise can be considered as righteousness.

If Jesus said, "Drink ye all of it" and one of the Twelve had abstained, would that have been righteous. Refusing to let him wash their feet was not a good idea.

 

[WithinReason]

Wine is fruit of the vine isn't it?

Alcohol is not a "fruit" of the vine, it is the corruption of the vine.

 

[WithinReason]

Kosher wine is fully fermented.

Modern 'Jews' know nothing of scripture, being mostly Rabbincally led, and Talmudic, even Kabbalistic in their theology. They reject Christ the pure and True Vine. 'Kosher' isn't scriptural, its traditional.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Alcohol is not a "fruit" of the vine, it is the corruption of the vine.

No it’s not. Your phariseeness is showing. Please cover it up.

 

[WithinReason]

Look up in John 2 where it says 'when the men have well drunk.' When the men were drunk, they usually brought out the cheap wine. Look it up in Greek.

We have already been over John 2. It says nothing about alcohol. You eisegetically read it into the text.

"Joh 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

"well drunk" doesn't mean "when they were drunk". It means to have had drank all that was available of the "good" (fresh juice of the grape).

It says, plainly, in English even, "when men have well drunk" of the good "wine" (John 2:10, fruit of the vine, grape juice) of a wedding (place of joy not inebriation), then that which is worse (ie, that which is the old stock of grape juice, being stored as syrup and then mixed with water. It wasn't the fresh juice, but the preserved stuff.)

You eisegetically cause the meaning of "good" to mean of stronger alcoholic content. That isn't what "kalos" means. Look it up in Greek.

 

[WithinReason]

No it’s not.

Yes it is. (I cited texts previously, and you cited 'you')