Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

[posthuman]

Oneness of God has nothing to do with quantity and so the threeness is a misapplication, an attempt to reconcile what would seem an impossibility. Oneness of God applies to His attributes which means 'He alone'.

so why are you accusing people of polytheism?

the LORD is God. the Spirit of the LORD is God. The Angel of the LORD is God.

I am the LORD, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. ​

(Isaiah 45:5) ​

​

the whole 'echad' argument against the nature of Him is readily defeated ↑
there's an explicitly quantitative measure for you

 

[Noose]

when God considered me.

When was that?

your idea that creation is not creation but merely re-molding of the substance of God into deceptive forms does not hold up.
i can destroy it quickly:
God destroys things created. He does not destroy Himself. therefore creation is not God.

This is what happens when you think God is an entity seated somewhere.
As much as God is light unto the children of light, He is surrounded by darkness unto those that are confined in the dark- means that God is both darkness and light and there's no where He can not be. It is not about destroying Himself but about His will.

God created through Adam, and has now remodeled through Christ (second Adam).

 

[Noose]

One being takes the scroll from the other being.

Did you see that?

How is trinity proven here?

 

[posthuman]

John 14/15/16/17, Jesus Himself explains this relationship between the Father/son/Holy spirit and it is nothing to do with Tri unity of persons.

are you even serious

John 16:13-15 for example makes the Spirit equal to Christ and Christ equal to the Father, even while each is spoken of as distinct.

 

[posthuman]

It is the Trinitarians that attack others.

Oneness of God has nothing to do with quantity and so the threeness is a misapplication, an attempt to reconcile what would seem an impossibility. Oneness of God applies to His attributes which means 'He alone'.

John 14/15/16/17, Jesus Himself explains this relationship between the Father/son/Holy spirit and it is nothing to do with Tri unity of persons.

John 14:1-11 shows that the Father and the Son are equivalent while distinct.

it is hard to believe you're read this and not seen it. put verse 17 with verse 6 and the Son is equivalent to the Spirit, yet also distinct - and the way to the Father is the Son, again equivalence within distinction. The Truth, the Spirit of Truth, the One in Whom there is no lie. One God. One Creator not one manipulator

 

[posthuman]

John 14/15/16/17, Jesus Himself explains this relationship between the Father/son/Holy spirit and it is nothing to do with Tri unity of persons.

John 14:26 - the Spirit teaches
Isaiah 54:13 / John 6:45 - they will be taught by God
Mark 14:49 - Jesus teaches, fulfilling scripture

 

[posthuman]

God created through Adam

all things that have been created are created through Christ.

2nd Adam. not 1st. without the facts straight, the conclusions are wonky. without the proper space, no measurement is valid.

 

[Noose]

John 14:26 - the Spirit teaches
Isaiah 54:13 / John 6:45 - they will be taught by God
Mark 14:49 - Jesus teaches, fulfilling scripture

True but how does these support Trinity?

Jesus told the disciples not unless He goes, the spirit won't come and He also told them, they know the spirit because He lives with them yet He (Jesus) must go for the spirit to come into them. Jesus goes on to say that He won't go for long but is coming into them shortly. Basically, Jesus was claiming to be the Holy spirit who was to go and come in them in a different form.

Not two distinct persons. This is not how two distinct person operate.

 

[Noose]

John 14:1-11 shows that the Father and the Son are equivalent while distinct.

it is hard to believe you're read this and not seen it. put verse 17 with verse 6 and the Son is equivalent to the Spirit, yet also distinct - and the way to the Father is the Son, again equivalence within distinction. The Truth, the Spirit of Truth, the One in Whom there is no lie. One God. One Creator not one manipulator

Nope. It is your doctrine that says two distinct yet one, the bible doesn't say that.

John 16:15 seem to suggest that it is just one person.

 

[Noose]

are you even serious

John 16:13-15 for example makes the Spirit equal to Christ and Christ equal to the Father, even while each is spoken of as distinct.

Not equals, just one person just like Isaiah 9:6 says. It talks of a child, not children.

 

[Noose]

all things that have been created are created through Christ.

2nd Adam. not 1st. without the facts straight, the conclusions are wonky. without the proper space, no measurement is valid.

Now, this is where you are wrong. Through Christ, God is doing a new thing, the old is passed.

 

[Noose]

so why are you accusing people of polytheism?

the LORD is God. the Spirit of the LORD is God. The Angel of the LORD is God.

I am the LORD, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. ​

(Isaiah 45:5) ​

​

the whole 'echad' argument against the nature of Him is readily defeated ↑
there's an explicitly quantitative measure for you

I'm not accusing anyone.

The echad argument doesn't hold water, in fact it supports the idea of authorities of God as opposed to persons within Godhead.

Just like 'God created him (Adam); male and female'- shows that within Adam there's authority of both male and female (subordinate).
It does not say 'God created them' but God created him. Now from Adam proceedeth Eve.
So how many persons was Adam?

 

[Noose]

God is one. i told you already; scroll up
'person' is for lack of a better term. Babel happened.

Trinity is also lack of a better explanation because it is an impossibility.
If Jesus is God and he is also one person, then God is just one person.

 

[Noose]

you contradicted yourself.

you said God only creates by manifesting, which would lead to not only every burning bush being God, but every bush, every tree, every speck of dust. but He was not in the earthquake or the gale - He was in the still small voice, yet not every small voice is Him.

your 'creation = manifesting' idea is wrong.

Yeah but the bible says when He withdraws His spirit, they are uncreated. Psalm 104

 

[Noose]

can we measure Him like we are measured??

Heb 2:17- He was made to be like his brothers in every way
If i can measure his brothers, then i can also measure Him. If He is God, then i can measure Him.

we are body, soul and spirit. that's 3, and we are one.

These are not 3 persons

who can measure Him? "

to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge" ((Ephesians 3:19)) -- how do we measure even His love? it is beyond knowing, yet something to be known. this isn't a regular old 2-d plane we're working in. this is infinite-dimensional vector space, and simultaneously a singularity. you can't just do 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 here. that's making untenable assumptions about the algebraic structure.

We are told to have the mind of Christ, the mind of Christ has this understanding, so we are required to move from a point of misunderstanding to understand what God did through Christ.
But do we understand?

 

[Alertandawake]

The reference to when Jesus said in John 14.28 "I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I" Last time I checked, greater does not mean equal.

Let us look at this verse

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

SO what does it mean here "I can of mine own self do nothing"??

 

[Noose]

The reference to when Jesus said in John 14.28 "I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I" Last time I checked, greater does not mean equal.

Let us look at this verse

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

SO what does it mean here "I can of mine own self do nothing"??

Everything that Jesus said is true.

 

[bojack]

Heb 2:17- He was made to be like his brothers in every way
If i can measure his brothers, then i can also measure Him. If He is God, then i can measure Him.


These are not 3 persons



We are told to have the mind of Christ, the mind of Christ has this understanding, so we are required to move from a point of misunderstanding to understand what God did through Christ.
But do we understand?

I don't like to use the word trinity but Jesus is God .. You can not know God if you don't know Jesus .. You can measure Jesus as a man to decide if He was God in the flesh or not .. God took the form of man for that purpose .. The Word become flesh for that purpose .. Jesus become the Lamb of God for that purpose . And without God's Word how could you know Him .. And if Jesus were a mere man then His sacrifice for us would have no more affect than Barabbas or any other man from Adam down .. God Himself come down to save us .. Same one God or Jesus is not worthy .. If you've seen Jesus you've seen God .. If you ain't you ain't ..

 

[Noose]

I don't like to use the word trinity but Jesus is God .. You can not know God if you don't know Jesus .. You can measure Jesus as a man to decide if He was God in the flesh or not .. God took the form of man for that purpose .. The Word become flesh for that purpose .. Jesus become the Lamb of God for that purpose . And without God's Word how could you know Him .. And if Jesus were a mere man then His sacrifice for us would have no more affect than Barabbas or any other man from Adam down .. God Himself come down to save us .. Same one God or Jesus is not worthy .. If you've seen Jesus you've seen God .. If you ain't you ain't ..

"God took the form of man" ... this is how God creates, the spirit of God takes the form of everything through the mind of a man; at first Adam (and consequently all who came through him) and secondly, Christ and consequently all who come through Him.

IOW, everything came from God, manifested through the heart of a man.

Q. When it is said that Christ reconciles us (everything) back to God, what does reconcile mean? Does it mean everything was once part of God, including you and i?

 

[bojack]

"God took the form of man" ... this is how God creates, the spirit of God takes the form of everything through the mind of a man; at first Adam (and consequently all who came through him) and secondly, Christ and consequently all who come through Him.

IOW, everything came from God, manifested through the heart of a man.

Q. When it is said that Christ reconciles us (everything) back to God, what does reconcile mean? Does it mean everything was once part of God, including you and i?

It only means that Gods Word is from the everlasting to the everlasting , not us , we are subject to creation and a beginning of time .. Now, we, our spirit/soul are a part of eternity past the End time ..