Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

[Alertandawake]

Are you saying the Son is also the only true God? If you are you, then are going against what Jesus said in John 17.1-3.

Once again, I want the explicit verse that Jesus himself straight out admits that he himself is The Supreme Being. Do you understand what the word "explicit" means?

 

[Alertandawake]

To make it clear I am a Unitarian Monotheistic

 

[posthuman]

Are you saying the Son is also the only true God? If you are you, then are going against what Jesus said in John 17.1-3.

Once again, I want the explicit verse that Jesus himself straight out admits that he himself is The Supreme Being. Do you understand what the word "explicit" means?

why did the Pharisees say, "only God can forgive sin!" ?

 

[posthuman]

why did the Pharisees say, "only God can forgive sin!" ?

because you know, i think they knew the scripture better than you or i -- and they had no confusion whatsoever about the fact that Jesus was boldly claiming Deity. this is exactly the thing they crucified Him for: purporting Himself = God.
they - like you - thought His message blasphemy, because they did not believe. this is exactly what He died for, m8. for our sin. for our unbelief.

 

[posthuman]

Can i ask you a question?

Q. When do you think you were created? is it when your parents conceived you or when Adam was created?

when God considered me.

your idea that creation is not creation but merely re-molding of the substance of God into deceptive forms does not hold up.
i can destroy it quickly:
God destroys things created. He does not destroy Himself. therefore creation is not God.

 

[posthuman]

Where does the son indwell the Holy spirit and where does the Father indwell the Holy spirit?

For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father
(Ephesians 2:18)

no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son,
and to whom the Son will reveal
(Luke 10:22)

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them
(John 6:44)

​

got anything else?

 

[posthuman]

So many things exist without beginning, example; darkness, silence

neither of these things are without beginning. God is neither dark nor silent, and HE IS before all things.

you can't be drawing correct conclusions from wrong facts. you have to start with truth to get somewhere worth going.

 

[posthuman]

I don't think their is actually a doctrine called the trinity as a law . Two works better for me. One God two attributes as examples of persons. God is not a man as us. One work of one faith accomplished by two . Two is the witness of God. Three does denote the end of the matter . Two denotes those sent out two by two .The church.

what is written is "on the testimony of two or three witnesses" and that "where two or more are gathered there am I"

when He sent them two by two, they were not alone.

 

[posthuman]

In the very first sentence scripture of the Bible.

In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.

Elohim is plural and not singular.

and everywhere in the OT when it is referring to God it is plural in noun form with singular verb form

 

[posthuman]

Because it doesn't make sense to me. The moment you have three persons as divine, you'll have three Gods.

we only say persons because our language lacks the vocabulary.

God is One. three entities are spoken of us God. two are easy to show; the third is more deeply hidden in inference.
there's only one conclusion, and that conclusion defies human logic, which is anthropomorphic in vanity. "tri-unity" is more accurate than "trinity" but again, we as human lack the appropriate vocabulary.

i'm sad to find people called Christians attacking doctrine as tho they are Moslem, accusing us of polytheism. His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge - how long will we simple ones love simplicity?

 

[posthuman]

You are talking of impossibilities here. God is spirit.

and He was manifest in the flesh. without controversy, great is the mystery

it's not 'more spiritual' to deny the body exists, IMO. i think it's less.
but seems to me that showing the Spirit is God isn't as clear in scripture as the Father and the Son - so i guess you have an advantage there

 

[posthuman]

there's no square-circle.

you haven't read the flat-earth threads huh
Revelation 7:1 + Isaiah 40:22 ?

 

[posthuman]

There's no such thing as three persons in one being just like there's no square-circle.

you just have the wrong measure, because your'e not considering the proper space the question is framed in.

for example: a hypersphere of order 4 has 4 equal sides, each a 4 dimensional sphere. the sides are not measured in 2d or 3d. they are not Cartesian lengths; a simple Cartesian measure like the L2 norm is nonsense in this context.

don't presume to measure God like He's a human in time and space like you & me








one can mathematically construct a form that is a circle in one measure and a square in another.

 

[Noose]

you just have the wrong measure, because your'e not considering the proper space the question is framed in.

for example: a hypersphere of order 4 has 4 equal sides, each a 4 dimensional sphere. the sides are not measured in 2d or 3d. they are not Cartesian lengths; a simple Cartesian measure like the L2 norm is nonsense in this context.

don't presume to measure God like He's a human in time and space like you & me




View attachment 211503



one can mathematically construct a form that is a circle in one measure and a square in another.

But we can measure Jesus in the same manner as you and me right?!, now, isn't He God according to you?

 

[Noose]

and He was manifest in the flesh. without controversy, great is the mystery

it's not 'more spiritual' to deny the body exists, IMO. i think it's less.
but seems to me that showing the Spirit is God isn't as clear in scripture as the Father and the Son - so i guess you have an advantage there

God also manifested as a burning bush during Moses' time, it didn't mean that burning bushes are God. God only creates by manifesting - He created the world through Adam at first, promised to do a new thing and followed up the promise by recreating the world through Jesus. This doesn't stop it from being a mystery.

 

[Noose]

we only say persons because our language lacks the vocabulary.

God is One. three entities are spoken of us God. two are easy to show; the third is more deeply hidden in inference.
there's only one conclusion, and that conclusion defies human logic, which is anthropomorphic in vanity. "tri-unity" is more accurate than "trinity" but again, we as human lack the appropriate vocabulary.

i'm sad to find people called Christians attacking doctrine as tho they are Moslem, accusing us of polytheism. His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge - how long will we simple ones love simplicity?

It is the Trinitarians that attack others.

Oneness of God has nothing to do with quantity and so the threeness is a misapplication, an attempt to reconcile what would seem an impossibility. Oneness of God applies to His attributes which means 'He alone'.

John 14/15/16/17, Jesus Himself explains this relationship between the Father/son/Holy spirit and it is nothing to do with Tri unity of persons.

 

[posthuman]

But we can measure Jesus in the same manner as you and me right?!, now, isn't He God according to you?

can we measure Him like we are measured??

we are body, soul and spirit. that's 3, and we are one.

who can measure Him? "to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge" ((Ephesians 3:19)) -- how do we measure even His love? it is beyond knowing, yet something to be known. this isn't a regular old 2-d plane we're working in. this is infinite-dimensional vector space, and simultaneously a singularity. you can't just do 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 here. that's making untenable assumptions about the algebraic structure.

 

[Noose]

​

For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father​

(Ephesians 2:18)​

​

no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, ​

and to whom the Son will reveal ​

(Luke 10:22) ​

​

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them​

(John 6:44) ​

​

​

got anything else?

The question was, if the Father (a person) indwells a son (one person), how many persons does the son become? was Jesus two persons or just one?
If you can directly answer this question then we will be getting somewhere at least.

 

[posthuman]

God also manifested as a burning bush during Moses' time, it didn't mean that burning bushes are God. God only creates by manifesting - He created the world through Adam at first, promised to do a new thing and followed up the promise by recreating the world through Jesus. This doesn't stop it from being a mystery.

you contradicted yourself.

you said God only creates by manifesting, which would lead to not only every burning bush being God, but every bush, every tree, every speck of dust. but He was not in the earthquake or the gale - He was in the still small voice, yet not every small voice is Him.

your 'creation = manifesting' idea is wrong.

 

[posthuman]

The question was, if the Father (a person) indwells a son (one person), how many persons does the son become? was Jesus two persons or just one?
If you can directly answer this question then we will be getting somewhere at least.

God is one. i told you already; scroll up
'person' is for lack of a better term. Babel happened.