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The Gift of Tongues in History: Miraculous Gifts: Are They for Today?
By Thomas R. Edgar
229
….. witness for the existence in the early Church of false claims to possess ecstatic spiritual gifts. This false movement gained a large number of adherents and greatly bothered the Church at large. Many apparently sincere believers, such as Tertullian, were caught up in this movement and defended it.
Certain characteristics of Montanus, who was a false prophet, may be noted.
He claimed to be strongly linked to the Paraclete or Holy Spirit.
It is probable that he claimed to be the Paraclete.
He claimed to be a Christian.
He was legalistic in his outlook.19
Many sincere believers became involved in his movement; others
defended it.
His movement was outside the mainstream of the church.
His ecstatic utterance is described as follows:
1 le was carried away in spirit and wrought up into a certain kind of frenzy and irregular ecstasy, raving, and speaking, and uttering strange things, and proclaiming what was contrary to the institutions that had prevailed in the church. . . .20
Notice that it is not stated that he spoke in an unintelligible manner.
Apparently Montanus abandoned any self-control and use of his own will when in his ecstasy.
Montanus is not evidence for the genuine gift of tongues or prophecy in the early Church, but he is proof for a false claim to ecstatic spiritual gifts which in many ways parallels the claims of today.
References in Irenaens (ca. A.D. 175)
Hinson describes three instances where Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyon in the second century, refers to tongues-speaking.21 The first refers to Acts 2 but does not describe tongues or refer to occurrences in Irenaeus’s own day.22 In the second quotation Irenaeus states:
^The New Schaff-Heriog Religious Encyclopedia, V'ol. VII, p. 486. 20Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, V, 16.
21 Sugg, Hinson, Oates, Glossolalia, pp. 48-49.
22Irenaeus, Against Heresies, III, 12.
By Thomas R. Edgar
229
….. witness for the existence in the early Church of false claims to possess ecstatic spiritual gifts. This false movement gained a large number of adherents and greatly bothered the Church at large. Many apparently sincere believers, such as Tertullian, were caught up in this movement and defended it.
Certain characteristics of Montanus, who was a false prophet, may be noted.
He claimed to be strongly linked to the Paraclete or Holy Spirit.
It is probable that he claimed to be the Paraclete.
He claimed to be a Christian.
He was legalistic in his outlook.19
Many sincere believers became involved in his movement; others
defended it.
His movement was outside the mainstream of the church.
His ecstatic utterance is described as follows:
1 le was carried away in spirit and wrought up into a certain kind of frenzy and irregular ecstasy, raving, and speaking, and uttering strange things, and proclaiming what was contrary to the institutions that had prevailed in the church. . . .20
Notice that it is not stated that he spoke in an unintelligible manner.
Apparently Montanus abandoned any self-control and use of his own will when in his ecstasy.
Montanus is not evidence for the genuine gift of tongues or prophecy in the early Church, but he is proof for a false claim to ecstatic spiritual gifts which in many ways parallels the claims of today.
References in Irenaens (ca. A.D. 175)
Hinson describes three instances where Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyon in the second century, refers to tongues-speaking.21 The first refers to Acts 2 but does not describe tongues or refer to occurrences in Irenaeus’s own day.22 In the second quotation Irenaeus states:
^The New Schaff-Heriog Religious Encyclopedia, V'ol. VII, p. 486. 20Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, V, 16.
21 Sugg, Hinson, Oates, Glossolalia, pp. 48-49.
22Irenaeus, Against Heresies, III, 12.
Have you read or examined any sources I referred you to? Have you done your own research? Maybe you could look at one of those videos on YouTube where someone gets healed, track the people involved down, interview, interview their families, or just send them an email. Have you read _Miracles_ by Keener? (I haven't,but I am not claiming his book is false without reading it first.) A Barna survey showed that a quarter of Americans reported experiencing a supernatural healing, for example, https://www.barna.com/research/americans-believe-supernatural-healing/
Again, this is not my area of research, but I have seen papers out there. There was an academic paper on healing of the blind and deaf in Mozambique. There is a lot of stuff out there.
If you read a bit on your history, you would know that there was a 'faith cure' movement before Azusa Street. Many people who went there believed in or had experienced healing. Parham had had a clubbed foot as a child.
Again, this is not my area of research, but I have seen papers out there. There was an academic paper on healing of the blind and deaf in Mozambique. There is a lot of stuff out there.
If you read a bit on your history, you would know that there was a 'faith cure' movement before Azusa Street. Many people who went there believed in or had experienced healing. Parham had had a clubbed foot as a child.
Dave-L
What we know of Montanus came from his critics. But if you read his critics, for example the section of Eusebius' Ecclasiastical History, that deal with Montanism, you will see that the Christians of that era who rejected him were careful to acknowledge that they believed the prophetic gift belonged to the church and some acknowledged Christian prophets by name in their discussion of Montanism. Amnia come to mind as one of the names.
LIke I said, that page was positive toward Tertullian. He wrote some good thigns in his apology, but I am not convinced we should be embracing Montanism. In North Africa and Rome, Montanists were probably considered a part of the church. Out where Montanus actually lived, probably not. But Tertullian did mention in his apology that Christians cast out spirits out of people that the pagans had considered gods, but would be manifest as demons when Christians cast them out. I believe Justin made a similar argument. Jesus called casting out demons in his name a miracle, and this is evidence that miracles continued in their day, no matter what you think of Tertullian's theology.
Eusebius also records a debate between a Montanist and a Christian after Montanus died. The Montanus believed that prophecy had ceased. The Christian believed that it continued because the apostle taught that prophecy would continue until the Lord returned. He may have been referencing I Corinthians 1:7 and I Corinthians 13. It could be that Montanists believed that I Corinthians 13 taught the gifts had already ceased... like you... except that they may have thought Montanus was or brought the perfect.
The picture Montanist critics put forth is that Montanus called himself the paraklete. I wonder if they were in the habit of attributing his prophecies to the Paraklete and it came off that way.
But this is beside the point. There is evidence that the church experienced spiritual gifts, and that the opponents of Montanism acknowledged them in the church, though they rejected Montanus' version of them.
What we know of Montanus came from his critics. But if you read his critics, for example the section of Eusebius' Ecclasiastical History, that deal with Montanism, you will see that the Christians of that era who rejected him were careful to acknowledge that they believed the prophetic gift belonged to the church and some acknowledged Christian prophets by name in their discussion of Montanism. Amnia come to mind as one of the names.
LIke I said, that page was positive toward Tertullian. He wrote some good thigns in his apology, but I am not convinced we should be embracing Montanism. In North Africa and Rome, Montanists were probably considered a part of the church. Out where Montanus actually lived, probably not. But Tertullian did mention in his apology that Christians cast out spirits out of people that the pagans had considered gods, but would be manifest as demons when Christians cast them out. I believe Justin made a similar argument. Jesus called casting out demons in his name a miracle, and this is evidence that miracles continued in their day, no matter what you think of Tertullian's theology.
Eusebius also records a debate between a Montanist and a Christian after Montanus died. The Montanus believed that prophecy had ceased. The Christian believed that it continued because the apostle taught that prophecy would continue until the Lord returned. He may have been referencing I Corinthians 1:7 and I Corinthians 13. It could be that Montanists believed that I Corinthians 13 taught the gifts had already ceased... like you... except that they may have thought Montanus was or brought the perfect.
The picture Montanist critics put forth is that Montanus called himself the paraklete. I wonder if they were in the habit of attributing his prophecies to the Paraklete and it came off that way.
But this is beside the point. There is evidence that the church experienced spiritual gifts, and that the opponents of Montanism acknowledged them in the church, though they rejected Montanus' version of them.
Dave why do you believe this....i have the sign gifts the apostles had...medical staff has brought me 5 people in a row before all got healed the next morning once...others tooo...and other things like what Moses did to have been done before...God working thru me....im not P/C....im just the Bible...but like the apostles I live that way
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When talking of the gifts of the Spirit, it can become controversial. In that I mean not from a scriptural point of view, but of a false one. There are many people who claim to have theses gifts, but many are proven to be fake(YouTube is full of them)
When people make the claim, I have to use discernment as to wether it is genuine or not. It also depends on which gift they claim to have. It’s not always an easy topic for me discuss.
When people make the claim, I have to use discernment as to wether it is genuine or not. It also depends on which gift they claim to have. It’s not always an easy topic for me discuss.