Not By Works

[PS]

No, I don't think there is a contradiction.
I just like to point out that Romans 11 says, both, Israel has been cast away, and Israel has not been cast away, whenever it comes up in debate.

Paul was a great debater and always argued both sides of the argument so people could see where he was coming from before he showed us the right way. If his remarks are inconclusive, it pays to read on to his final conclusion.

 

[VCO]

. . .

This is why OSAS is so dangerous!:
Ezekiel 13
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

You do not UNDERSTAND what our OSAS FAITH actually TEACHES and actually we BELIEVE; only what your teachers have taught you, about OSAS beliefs, which is only Speculations, or False Ideas about OSAS BELIEFS.

 

[PS]

You do not UNDERSTAND what our OSAS FAITH actually TEACH and BELIEVE; only what your teachers have taught you, about OSAS beliefs, which is only Speculations, or False Ideas about OSAS BELIEFS.

Then, even after having ample opportunity you have failed to educate those you disagree with.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree that reading John 6 only one would conclude its OSAS one and done.

But how do we reconcile that with some treading on the son of God and the blood by which they *were* sanctified? How can they be sanctified by the blood if they were not saved.

These demand an answer as well, how can we view them in light of what John 6 is saying? I realize many answers can be answered with they went out from among us because they were not of us, but how does that work with these who have been sanctified by the blood? Could you respond to that, or anyone else? I would like to thank VCO again for responding to me regarding 1 Cor 6:9-11 and I found his view of it biblical and logical, good view.

You tell me

How can I read John 6, which makes it clear whoever COMES TO CHRIST has eternal life and will NEVER be cast out,

with a passage which appears to say one can COME TO CHRIST, yet does not have eternal life, and will be cast out?

Are they both right? Are they both wrong? Are is our misinterretation of one wrong?

 

[Chris1975]

see

once again, You can not look at the passage, But can only mock.

lol Continue Your true elf is being revealed.

The word in John 15:

αἴρω (contr. fr. poet. ἀείρω); fut. ἀρῶ; 1 aor. ἦρα, inf. ἆραι, impv. ἆρον; pf. ἦρκα (Col. 2:14); Pass., [pres. αἴρομαι]; pf. ἦρμαι (Jn. 20:1); 1 aor. ἤρθην; (on the rejection of iota subscr. in these tenses see Bttm. Ausf. Spr. i. pp. 413, 439; [W. 47 (46)]); 1 fut. ἀρθήσομαι; [fr. Hom. down]; in the Sept. generally i. q. נָשָׂא; to lift up, raise.
1. to raise up;
a. to raise from the ground, take up: stones, Jn. 8:59; serpents, Mk. 16:18; a dead body, Acts 20:9.
b. to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand, Rev. 10:5; the eyes, Jn. 11:41; the voice, i. e. speak in a loud tone, cry out, Lk. 17:13; Acts 4:24, (also in prof. writ.); τὴν ψυχήν, to raise the mind, i. q. excite, affect strongly (with a sense of fear, hope, joy, grief, etc.); in Jn. 10:24 to hold the mind in suspense between doubt and hope, cf. Lücke [or Meyer] ad loc.
c. to draw up: a fish, Mt. 17:27 (ἀνασπᾶν, Hab. 1:15); σκάφην, Acts 27:17; anchors from the bottom of the sea, Acts 27:13, where supply τὰς ἀγκύρας; cf. Kuinoel ad loc.; [W. 594 (552); B. 146 (127)].
2. to take upon one’s self and carry what has been raised, to bear: τινὰ ἐπὶ χειρῶν, Mt. 4:6; Lk. 4:11, (Ps. 90 (91):12); a sick man, Mk. 2:3; ζυγόν, Mt. 11:29 (Lam. 3:27); a bed, Mt. 9:6; Mk. 2:9, 11 sq.; Lk. 5:24 sq.; Jn. 5:8–12; τὸν σταυρόν, Mt. [10:38 Lchm. mrg.]; 16:24; 27:32; Lk. 9:23; Mk. 8:34; 10:21 [in R Lbr.]; 15:21; [λίθον,] Rev. 18:21; to carry with one, [A. V. take]: Mk. 6:8; Lk. 9:3; 22:36. Both of these ideas are expressed in class. Grk. by the mid. αἴρεσθαι.

Lol. You can twist all you like. But theres no getting away from the fact that these same branches are thrown in the fire (a few verses later). Pretty much up-ends all of the twisting you do above.

My interpretation is correct. Yours is wrong.

 

[Chris1975]

You tell me

How can I read John 6, which makes it clear whoever COMES TO CHRIST has eternal life and will NEVER be cast out,

with a passage which appears to say one can COME TO CHRIST, yet does not have eternal life, and will be cast out?

Are they both right? Are they both wrong? Are is our misinterretation of one wrong?

You have come to Christ in order to receive it. You have to remain in Faith. Rejecting Christ (after having come to Him) will not keep your salvation. Deep down, you really know this. So stop arguing. Or stop being a false prophet (if it is you intention to deceive).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul said to run the race to the end, and I can imagine him saying, "The OSAS people have left, they do not belong to us."

paul was not running to earn his salvation

He was running to try to comtinue to become Christ like. Something he said he never attained. No one has in this lifetime

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They claim that 'sanctified' is referring to unbelievers who have been sanctified by God for contact with believers, like an unbelieving spouse and their children are 'sanctified' for contact with by a believer.

Problem: No where in scripture does God sanctify a willfully sinning unbeliever to be in contact with believers in the church. The Bible instructs us to expel them for the very reason that they are NOT sanctified.

I so wish you people would stop putting words in our mouths. Your wrong every time, and just make yourself look foolish

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why don't you believe in eternal security? Who and what do you depend on to keep you saved?

Also when you speak of falling away and turning away from God do you mean not believing in Jesus anymore or sinning too much or something else?

Amen someone gets it..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's a matter of being a son who inherits eternal life and being one who doesn't.

Remember, Abraham had two sons.

and how to we become sons?

John 1: 12 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [a]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

Those who recieve Christ in faith are those empowered to become sons.

Not those who have not recieved Christ because of unbelief.. ps. Adding works to salvation is considered unbelief.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are saved eternally provided we continue with the Lord to the end, do not grieve the Holy Spirit, or have a change of heart. I know you people say that cannot happen, but I know how changeable people can be. The Bible is very specific about backsliders, the warnings are horrendous and the Israelites flip-flopped very easily between the true God and false gods. We would not be warned against it happening, if it were not true. My concerns are not for myself but for others, and they are not dispelled by their easy dismissal of such things. All scripture is to be taken seriously, but the cults are very selective, and it is this selectivity and misapplication of scripture that causes me to be alarmed.

Eph 4 30 and do not GRIEVE the HS with whom you HAVE BEEN SEALED until the day of redemption

If you are sealed until the day of redemption. Then you are assured unless the day of redemption never comes. In which case, we all will be in hell.. .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do not UNDERSTAND what our OSAS FAITH actually TEACHES and actually we BELIEVE; only what your teachers have taught you, about OSAS beliefs, which is only Speculations, or False Ideas about OSAS BELIEFS.

Thats why they continue to bear false witness against us, Because their understanding of what we believe is based on what they were taught or their preconcieved notions. Not about what we ACTUALLY believe.

 

[Chris1975]

I so wish you people would stop putting words in our mouths. Your wrong every time, and just make yourself look foolish

That was quoted earlie

and how to we become sons?

John 1: 12 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [a]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

Those who recieve Christ in faith are those empowered to become sons.

Not those who have not recieved Christ because of unbelief.. ps. Adding works to salvation is considered unbelief.

Actually here is the distinction. See if you can spot it:

John 8
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Q1: what are the characteristics of a slave above?
Q2: what are the characteristics of a son above?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lol. You can twist all you like. But theres no getting away from the fact that these same branches are thrown in the fire (a few verses later). Pretty much up-ends all of the twisting you do above.

My interpretation is correct. Yours is wrong.

You can not even discuss John 6, how would you expect me to have any confidence you understand John 15

Your wrong, in any case, because the bible can not contradict itself

and once again, Your refusal to actually discuss, and just PROCLAIM, is your downfall.

Your hurt yoursef man, Your like all the people who have come before you. All bark. no bite.

 

[Chris1975]

You can not even discuss John 6, how would you expect me to have any confidence you understand John 15

Your wrong, in any case, because the bible can not contradict itself

and once again, Your refusal to actually discuss, and just PROCLAIM, is your downfall.

Your hurt yoursef man, Your like all the people who have come before you. All bark. no bite.

I did a response to John 6. Why do you keep pretenting I haven't. Why haven't you responded to Saul? Like you promised?

 

[Chris1975]

You can not even discuss John 6, how would you expect me to have any confidence you understand John 15

Your wrong, in any case, because the bible can not contradict itself

and once again, Your refusal to actually discuss, and just PROCLAIM, is your downfall.

Your hurt yoursef man, Your like all the people who have come before you. All bark. no bite.

Is that your way of avoiding having to comment on these same branches being thrown into the fire?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You have come to Christ in order to receive it. You have to remain in Faith.

I am sorry but Jesus (john 6) does not say this.

Jesus says: 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

But you have no desire to actually discuss the word. You just throw it out and only want to discuss things you THINK supports your view. So you will never see it, thats sad.

Rejecting Christ (after having come to Him) will not keep your salvation. Deep down, you really know this. So stop arguing. Or stop being a false prophet (if it is you intention to deceive).

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son

An unbeliever denies christ John said they were NEVER OF US

John refutes what yu have just said man, I pray you stop and start to listen to the words of John.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That was quoted earlie
Actually here is the distinction. See if you can spot it:
John 8
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Q1: what are the characteristics of a slave above?
Q2: what are the characteristics of a son above?

the son makes you free

Did the son make you free or did he not?
Is it the sons fault if you do not take what hehas freed you from in ALL AREAS of your life, and have freedom in ALL AREAS?

of course not.

But it does nto stop you from being the son.

Your to focused on works man, You think your works will cause God to look highly on you and forgive your sins because of your works. You have another thing coming

How does the son make you free?

John told is in john 1: 12 by recieving him

why CAN'T you see it?

 

[Chris1975]

I am sorry but Jesus (john 6) does not say this.

Jesus says: 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

But you have no desire to actually discuss the word. You just throw it out and only want to discuss things you THINK supports your view. So you will never see it, thats sad.



19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son

An unbeliever denies christ John said they were NEVER OF US

John refutes what yu have just said man, I pray you stop and start to listen to the words of John.

John 6
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out.
- nothing wrong or untrue about that statement. Those who COME TO.
- but when you "DRAW BACK" Hebrews 10v38 you are in trouble.

Do you understand the difference between COME TO and DRAW BACK?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I did a response to John 6. Why do you keep pretenting I haven't. Why haven't you responded to Saul? Like you promised?

You did not respond

You made a strawman response

When you respond to someone, You take their points and SHOW them why their points are wrong

You did not even look or show how I was wrong in any part of my post on john 6. Like I did yours..

its on you to show why I was wrong in the notes I made. Faiure to do so can ONLY lead people to understand you do not know really what is said, or you can not respond. And SHOULD lead them to not give what you say much attention. Because if you can not do this here, then you must now know much about other stuff either.