Not By Works

[Discern]

You did make a comment against his name.

I apologize for that Dcontroversal

 

[Judges1318]

McArthur, Sproul, spurgeon believe(d) in eternal security. Who told you they didnt

Sproul was a big reason I began to believe in eternal security. A BIG reason

I about fell out of my chair recently when I heard John McArthur say believing couldn't possibly be how you stay saved because that would be works (or something along that line). I had listened to him for years back when I first got saved and had a lot of respect for him. Not anymore. I can't listen to him anymore.

 

[EleventhHour]

Usually if people don’t believe in once saved always saved, do they post dozens of posts saying they do? Is that common around here?

Sometimes.

 

[dcontroversal]

I about fell out of my chair recently when I heard John McArthur say believing couldn't possibly be how you stay saved because that would be works (or something along that line). I had listened to him for years back when I first got saved and had a lot of respect for him. Not anymore. I can't listen to him anymore.

Listen Ralph.......the same drivel you peddle = no respect before Christ either.........and make no mistake...what you peddle is not of God.....my bible states we are saved eternally, sealed eternally, justified eternally and positionally sanctified eternally by the faith that Christ...

a. deals in measure'
b. begins in us
c.. finishes in us
d. completes in us

Your insolence and devaluation of Christ, his power, his promises, his faith and his work on our behalf as one STANDING to intercede FOREVER for those saved will NOT go unanswered.........your judgement lingereth not and I suggest you get right before GOD before you leave this earth or you will have a very bad day coming pal!

 

[dcontroversal]

The church is all talk, no power, and no reality. All words.
Thanks in big part to the cancer of 'Cessationism' which has been teaching the church since the Reformation that the power of the Spirit in supernatural gifts doesn't exist anymore, and so, few in the church believe they can have the power and reality of a miraculous gift of the Spirit, for, surely you won't walk in a gift you do not believe exists. Thanks a lot, Calvin!

The power is in the message and THE WORD genius......obviously you cannot grasp this truth!

 

[Judges1318]

The mind that demands a person agree with you on all points or their damned. You remind me of Steven Anderson

You'll find this interesting.

(At least read the comments.)

This subject should be required curriculum in every school in every country.
I wish I knew about this when I was 18. Not just because of the abuse I've suffered at the hands of these kinds of people but I had signs of this in my own life, which had to go when I came to faith in Christ.

 

[morefaithrequired]

You'll find this interesting.

(At least read the comments.)

This subject should be required curriculum in every school in every country.
I wish I knew about this when I was 18. Not just because of the abuse I've suffered at the hands of these kinds of people but I had signs of this in my own life, which had to go when I came to faith in Christ.

ive seen this before. i recommend it too

 

[Judges1318]

You do not base salvation on grace. You base it on holding the right doctrine.

That pretty much defines the present day church.
This is what Paul says should define us:

Romans 14:17-19 NIV
17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.

Just insert any of the various pet doctrines of the church in place of 'eating and drinking' and you'll see how the church has defined the believing that saves as believing the correct doctrines about God. We've totally missed what being a Christian is all about. I'll be honest. I blame the leadership of the church.

 

[VCO]

If you truly believe that, why don't you follow his instructions addressed to Noah and build an ark now?

You are Certainly BLIND, we can learn fro NOAH HOW TO TRUST GOD! So why don't YOU.

 

[Judges1318]

I said Judges believed in saved by grace through faith. He also believes it is grace and the ministry of Jesus that keeps us.

That is exactly what I believe.
The difference between me and you, perhaps, is I believe that we are to keep ourselves in the grace and ministry of Jesus that keeps us. And we do that through the exact same believing and trusting in Christ that got us there in the first place.

I read that and figured he had perhaps an incomplete understanding not understanding osas,, but understood saved and kept by Grace

Calling the requirement to continue to believe in the grace of God a work of the flesh is what I completely and totally resist in the once saved always saved doctrine.

And, of course, I resist the latest trend in once saved always saved circles that says you can even stop believing altogether and literally go back to unbelief and you are still saved.

 

[Judges1318]

All the apostles taught osas every time they preached the Gospel, too. So shame on me for coming to understand it later

Actually, that's not true.
A little study in church history will show you that once saved always saved was not embraced by the generations immediately following the Apostles. What happened is the Apostles teaching has been over time interpreted as once saved always saved. It's a later intrusion into the doctrine of the church. It took 1500 years for it to be an official part of the church, and that happened only because there was a split in the church.

Sorry to burden anyone with long videos, but I think this (and other videos) is worth watching if you really want to know the truth about the church we live in today, and which we think believes and behaves exactly the way God wants us to.

I came to the conclusion that once saved always saved was at the very least a suspect doctrine by simply starting out my journey with God as a Christian largely in the scriptures themselves and not on the popular doctrinal teachers and their teachings of the day, and so I could see that what it taught did not line up with what the Bible actually taught in it's totality regarding this subject.

 

[Guojing]

You are Certainly BLIND, we can learn fro NOAH HOW TO TRUST GOD! So why don't YOU.

So you can learn from Noah without having to follow the instructions he received from Scripture.

You cannot do likewise for the instructions James gave to the 12 tribes?

 

[Judges1318]

Sorry to burden anyone with long videos, but I think this (and other videos) is worth watching if you really want to know the truth about the church we live in today, and which we think believes and behaves exactly the way God wants us to.

Jump in at 15:10 if anyone doesn't have a lot of time to listen to the whole thing.

 

[Judges1318]

I have also constantly disagreed with Judges, over and over. Ask him. He read my posts. He knows

It's true. Discern does not agree with me.
There is no doubt about that.
What is unique is we have disagreed in a calm, and respectful manner.
Even though he does not agree with what I believe I don't have to wonder about his salvation, because he acts like Christ.

 

[Judges1318]

It is not God manufacturing love. It is God raising people to spiritual life. People who are spiritually alive love God

The kind of talk that says “God manufactures love” is neither Calvinist or Biblical. That is talk as if God is unlovable. Those who know God love Him, because He beautiful, and worthy of love

God does not have to manufacture love. People just need to know who He is, who they are, and what He has done for them.

And if we love Him, the more we love Him, the more it will show in our actions. All good doctrine is based on these principles. If we emphasize anything else, we are emphasizing the wrong things

Not a bad argument.
But I'm fairly certain that Calvinism says that God purposely creates you as one who will love God, and purposely creates others who won't love God. You're saying Calvinism says God simply moves the blocks out of the way for some people to love God and doesn't move them out of the way for others, but if he did, they would love Him too.

 

[posthuman]

What about Hebrews 3?

was wondering what you thought of Discern's post -

Some believe that continuance in faith is NOT synonomous with self maintained faith.

Hebrews 3:6 and Hebrews 3:14 seem to indicate a holding fast to confidence that is not self maintained, but rather a result of what God has already done and is doing.

If anyone says we have to maintain our salvation, that is an error. We are given by God to Jesus, and He loses none.

'holding fast the confidence' -- what confidence is this? certainly not 'confidence in the flesh' ((Philippians 3:1-4)) - whatever this is in Philippians 3:9 'a righteousness not of my own' that 'is through faith' it is the opposite of vv. 5-6.
is this something 'self-maintained' ? is it the same confidence as expressed in Philippians 1:6, "being confident of this very thing" -- that "He who began a good work in you is faithful to complete it" ?

i thought when you replied to that post you went off track a bit griping about whatever 'calvinism' is, instead of talking about the scripture that was brought up. i don't want to talk about -isms and -ologies, but about Christ, and the Bible.

 

[posthuman]

You're saying Calvinism says God simply moves the blocks out of the way for some people to love God and doesn't move them out of the way for others, but if he did, they would love Him too.

don't care what an -ism says, personally.

but is this idea exactly what Isaiah 6:8-13 / John 12:37-41 is presenting? or how is it different?

because what any -ism says doesn't matter at all. what matters is what scripture says, because what scripture says is true.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Look at people who,was here day one and people today.

not the same for the most part.

next..

Amen...
Along with my bible reading , I have learned sooooo much from this thread , and I am so thankful to the LORD our GOD that the swords still swing in here...

This thread is a battleground where swords will clash , Jesus said He came to separate , wolves from the sheep , wheat and tares , this thread has definitely shown me how the wolves operate , many speak with a smooth tongue , their words sounding sweet as honey , yet coated in lies ...

Keep fighting brothers & sisters , the LORD our God is with us , we are to fight our battles daily , pick up our cross and follow our LORD ...

We can only plant the seeds , and pray that God grows them , pray that He ploughs the hearts of those who are traveling on the broad path with their luggage that will not fit through the narrow gate ...
...xox...

 

[mailmandan]

Another one who thinks you can LOSE YOUR SALVATION.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.

It is NOT ETERNAL if you can Lose it. -- PERIOD!

No one certainly includes yourself. -- PERIOD!

SO YOU ARE SAYING YOU DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS ? ? ?

Amen! Salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

 

[PS]

All I ever see is fighting and intolerance without any Christian grace.