The redemption of our bodies happens at the rapture, the resurrection of the church. Our bodies will be changed to the image of Christ. Our new bodies will be flesh and bone but no blood.
Is unconditional election biblical?
- Thread starter UnitedWithChrist
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The redemption of our bodies happens at the rapture, the resurrection of the church. Our bodies will be changed to the image of Christ. Our new bodies will be flesh and bone but no blood.
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
@7seasrekeyed disagreed with this? Wow! Faith comes by the word[Romans 10:17]. We are justified by faith[Romans 5:1, Galatians 3:8]. To be justified means to be declared righteous by the imputed righteousness of the Christ. So ppl can be declared righteous w/o ever hearing the word, never knowing who the Christ is? Wow, in ppl’s attempts to push themselves away from Calvinism, they run smack into hyper-Calvinism.
She’s saying they can come to saving faith via external means, external in that they can come to faith outside of the word of God. That’s heresy.
I'll add you also sound like a school girl going nah nah nah nah nah
you don't address me...you appeal to everyone else here
that's called Argumentum ad populum (argument or appeal to the public). This is the fallacy of trying to prove something by showing that the public agrees with you.
again, you folks appear to be so happy if you think you have found something to pin on someone
it's really not very appealing ... but just like Calvin himself
only in your mind dude
only in your mind
the interesting thing is that you have accused Flowers of saying exactly the same and he didn't say such a thing either
it is actually your limited understanding of the gospel that prevents you from understanding
classic Calvinism
@Whispered asked this...
this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.[Acts 2:23]
He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?[Romans 8:32]
The crucifixion of the Christ was decreed by God. He was the driving force behind it. Yet, those who mocked, spit, pulled His beard from His face, nailed Him to the cross, all did so freely. No one made them do this. In Isaiah 10, God used the Assyrians to throttle Israel. In 1 Chronicles 5:26, God stirred up Pul and Tilgath-pilneser to attack Israel. God uses ppl to fulfill His purposes my friend. It’s there in your bible if you look them up.
All you have to do is look at the cross.
this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.[Acts 2:23]
He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?[Romans 8:32]
The crucifixion of the Christ was decreed by God. He was the driving force behind it. Yet, those who mocked, spit, pulled His beard from His face, nailed Him to the cross, all did so freely. No one made them do this. In Isaiah 10, God used the Assyrians to throttle Israel. In 1 Chronicles 5:26, God stirred up Pul and Tilgath-pilneser to attack Israel. God uses ppl to fulfill His purposes my friend. It’s there in your bible if you look them up.
The redemption of our bodies, which is the adoption (Romans 8:23), is what the believer is predestined to. The Lord doesn’t predestine someone until they believe the gospel and are found in Him, in Christ. No one is predestined to be in Christ.
Regardless the debate doesn't change the individuals need for Christ. So it is a unproductive debate. Both sides produce scripture followed by their interpretation. Either way regardless of how people come to Christ we are told to believe and abide. Remain faithful.
This is the message of the evangelist. Believe and put your faith in Christ. We do not go to remote villages and ask okay who is God's elect? Please come forward. No we preach to all because ALL or whoever believes will be saved. John 3:16.
Dead as in eternal damnation. Not moral total depravity. Even a athiest can be moral by stealing from God the knowledge of the moral law. But yet deny the creator of the law. The law is self evident. They are still damned without Christ but you can see the affects of the moral law in mankind as they choose between good and evil or morality and immorality.
Criticism usually comes from the individuals that lack a good response.
Because your adding your opinion of interpretation. The verse only says they surely will die. Then you went to explain that but the simple message was that they will die. Okay great but you are interpreting this verse to somehow say we are no longer created the image of God. Which is actually the first time I have ever heard that proclaimed.
But I suppose this is what happens when we conform our interpretation to our presuppositions.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
How do you define "free will"... people have different understanding of this concept, I do not find it useful to discuss unless one defines the terms first.
Man’s image fell in the garden. Man’s image has been corrupted. We are born in the fallen image of Adam.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
1 Corinthians 15 says,
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
God’s going to fix our image one day.
@Whispered asked this...
All you have to do is look at the cross.
this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.[Acts 2:23]
He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?[Romans 8:32]
The crucifixion of the Christ was decreed by God. He was the driving force behind it. Yet, those who mocked, spit, pulled His beard from His face, nailed Him to the cross, all did so freely. No one made them do this. In Isaiah 10, God used the Assyrians to throttle Israel. In 1 Chronicles 5:26, God stirred up Pul and Tilgath-pilneser to attack Israel. God uses ppl to fulfill His purposes my friend. It’s there in your bible if you look them up.
So as to the answer to the question I posed, do you believe in free will or not?
Good I agree they chose themselves to rebel. And also agree that the Bible doesn't teach that God forces mankind against their will which is my point you shouldn't speak on it then. He only guides, draws, and prompts mankind to respond. The only part in scripture we are told to do is hear, believe, repent, and confess.They did it themselves. No one made them do it. You’re asking me questions the Bible doesn’t speak about. I have a rule of thumb, when the Bible doesn’t speak, neither do I.
Romans 1:16 New International Version (NIV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
What part of justice by a perfect judge isnt fair?Everyone will be judged fairly as in some saints will have more rewards in heaven or to the sinner all will be judged fairly off of how they responded to God. Gods judgment is always fair and just. His judgment is exactly what is owed to each individual.
But the flesh and the bones are corruptible stuff.
"Now, this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; he shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality ." The Book of Ist Corinthians chapter 15 verses 50 through 53
"For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. " The Book of John chapter 5 verses 22 through 24
The blood is what is corrupt. This is why the Lord had to shed all of His blood as an example. Christ’s resurrection body had flesh and bone but no blood.
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
I say God because Jesus is God in the flesh. But yes thank you for the specific reference
How do you interpret this passage after the fall?
Genesis 9:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 “Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.
Jesus resurrection coincided with the Feast of First Fruits.
How do we reconcile Jesus appearance in His glorified body with what the Saint Apostle Paul observed about the corruptible flesh in 1st Corinthians 15?