Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[FollowtheShepherd]

I studied the word hard as a young man, and had all these beliefes i knew was right, it was not until my later years i realized i was not as smart as i thought, and alot i was taught was wrong

And amazingly some stuff i could not see in some verses also opened up to me.

Same here brother! and honeslty for me it's a constant, every year I look back I feel He has taught me more and more in His word and in His ways, Im to the point now where I know there is ALWAYS more to learn and room to grow!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well in the same likeness that Jesus is the judge (shown in Revelation and spoken of in the gospels) he is also the passover lamb spoken of in Exodus and shown in the gospels.

Do you so how Jesus fulfills it?

Exodus; passover lamb - Gospels; Jesus sacrifice

Exodus; judgement for evil - Revelation; Jesus judges evil

No

I do not see god judge evil in exodus, he saved his people, based on the passover lamb

The men who died died because they were following pharaohs command to go get them

The law shows problem which is sin (we are guilty)
It shows the solution, death, of the unblemished animal, in place of the sinner

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Yep

But this is NOT because people are not following the law

It is because they spend their days loving self, and not loving god and others

The end result, is they break commands, not just commands found in the law. Which is not an exhaustive list of sins.

But thats exactly why He says love grown cold, because "lawlessness" iniquity literally means lawlessness.

Matt 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

I think as we both said earlier, if ppl are led by His spirit they will walk in His ways;

Ezekiel 36:26-27, " 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Same here brother! and honeslty for me it's a constant, every year I look back I feel He has taught me more and more in His word and in His ways, Im to the point now where I know there is ALWAYS more to learn and room to grow!

Amen, sometimes it is hard to let go, but we have to be open, or we risk trouble, its foolish to think you are right at all cost, then in reality to be wrong, and never see it because your too proud to be open to the fact you may be wrong (this was me for years, yes i admit to being a fool!).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But thats exactly why He says love grown cold, because "lawlessness" iniquity literally means lawlessness.

Matt 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

Yes, but why did iniquity abound? Because people loved sin more than they loved god and others, and what is the result? Their love grows cold. They become self righteous, self centered people who will kill their parents if it means they get what they want.

The root cause is lack of love, not the law.

I think as we both said earlier, if ppl are led by His spirit they will walk in His ways;

Ezekiel 36:26-27, " 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Yes, and how do we walk in his way. By looking for who to love, who to serve, who to teach, who to help, who to lead, who to follow, etc etc

It is others focused, not self

The law gets us to look at self, (performance based) we need to resist that,

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Its pretty clear what I said.

You are not perfect. You are not Christ.

You don't have Christs understanding or power. So how are you going to do what He does?


Well, you're not, quite frankly. You are not going to be crucified and die for the sins of the world. You are not going to give people rest who work at the law but can't be perfected by it. You are not going to produce spiritual fruit in other peoples lives.

But if you REALLY want to follow Christ then you will listen to Paul. I'm kind of getting the feeling you don't really want to follow Christ. If you did, then how come you don't understand what I am saying? And I've said it at least 3 times maybe 4?

There it is again, sounds like in a roundabout way you are telling me not to follow Jesus.

LOL!!!!!

I'm kind of getting the feeling you don't really want to follow Christ.

Thats why Im constantly saying I believe we should follow Jesus, the ONLY shepherd, keep posting it and say that is what I seek to do with my life. The whole time continully says "I am not perfect" yet you still need to tell me how "imperfect I am"

This is onr of my 1st posts here, and I have been saying this over and over.

Well God says Jesus is the One to obey, (Acts 3:21-23 quoted above)

Jesus says He is the ONLY Shepherd (John 10:16 quoted above)

1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”

1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Jesus) himself lived.”

John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life. Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”

Yet you are telling me Jesus is too perfect to follow so I should follow Paul and at the same time saying I dont want to follow Jesus.

WOW. Just WOW.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

If there is no law, standard of rightousness today, there is no sin today.
If there is no sin, we don't need Christ today because we don't need forgiveness. Keeping the law does not save us but taking the law away means we don't need salvation.

This is common sense according to the word. Straight to the point.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But what I have been saying the whole time is Jesus is the perfect example of how to follow God's law. It's not that the law is gone, it's that Jesus shows us the way and empowers us to be more and more like Him (not perfect) but growing in His ways.

Yes i agree with you

But my point is how did jesus follow the law

1. Because he was focused on it 24/7 so he was sure to keep it,

Or 2. because he spent his life putting the needs of everyone he met, including his enemy, above his own needs.

In my view, it is the second, he not only gave us the law of love, (love god and neighbor and you will not break the law) he gave us the example of how to practice that love

Does this make sense?

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

I think jesus is talking about right then and there, in his present situation at that time

i can (presently) do nothing on my own, as i HEAR (presently) i judge (make an opinion based on what i hear) because i seek not my own will, but the will of him who sent me

He is saying he is doing or he judges things based on what his father wishes, not based on his own understanding or feelings

But He says He came to do the Fathers will, do you think He disagrees with the Father or is in full agreement?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But He says He came to do the Fathers will, do you think He disagrees with the Father or is in full agreement?

He is in 100 % agreement that why he said, i do what i hear,

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

No

I do not see god judge evil in exodus, he saved his people, based on the passover lamb

The men who died died because they were following pharaohs command to go get them

The law shows problem which is sin (we are guilty)
It shows the solution, death, of the unblemished animal, in place of the sinner

OK I think I didnt type that properly

Let me explain a little better please:

Exodus; passover lamb (foreshadowing by a literaly lamb) - Gospels carried out/fulfilled; Jesus sacrifice

Exodus; judgement for evil (foershadowing by the law) - Revelation carried out/fulfilled; Jesus judges evil

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Yes, but why did iniquity abound? Because people loved sin more than they loved god and others, and what is the result? Their love grows cold. They become self righteous, self centered people who will kill their parents if it means they get what they want.

The root cause is lack of love, not the law.




Yes, and how do we walk in his way. By looking for who to love, who to serve, who to teach, who to help, who to lead, who to follow, etc etc

It is others focused, not self

The law gets us to look at self, (performance based) we need to resist that,

I agreee with most everything here, and you even said it outright! "people loved sin more than they loved god and others" and sin is transgression of the law. No law no sin.

However there are many laws about the well being of others, so I would not say it only looking in. A bad heart will twist, a spirit led heart will walk in the love it perscribes IMO.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Amen, sometimes it is hard to let go, but we have to be open, or we risk trouble, its foolish to think you are right at all cost, then in reality to be wrong, and never see it because your too proud to be open to the fact you may be wrong (this was me for years, yes i admit to being a fool!).

Yes, same here. Some things I was always told and accepted and were hard to let go of even though the word clearly stated differently and I have had translations that I was stuck on and years later found a different translation that better displayed the original and that helped me to see what the word actually said. Now I try to fully submit to His word and spirit (one in the same) and cast aside any feelings I have.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OK I think I didnt type that properly

Let me explain a little better please:

Exodus; passover lamb (foreshadowing by a literaly lamb) - Gospels carried out/fulfilled; Jesus sacrifice

Exodus; judgement for evil (foershadowing by the law) - Revelation carried out/fulfilled; Jesus judges evil

I still do not see it, bro, forgive me..

I see revelation as the judgment people were already headed to before the law was even given

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agreee with most everything here, and you even said it outright! "people loved sin more than they loved god and others" and sin is transgression of the law. No law no sin.

However there are many laws about the well being of others, so I would not say it only looking in. A bad heart will twist, a spirit led heart will walk in the love it perscribes IMO.

Yes, but remember, the term sin in the greek is hamerte which in effect means to miss the mark, a failure to hit the mark,
The mark is set by god anything that falls below that mark is sin, be it said in the law or not.
Which is what paul said all have sinned, b cause no one has hit that mark,

Any action which falls below that mark is sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, same here. Some things I was always told and accepted and were hard to let go of even though the word clearly stated differently and I have had translations that I was stuck on and years later found a different translation that better displayed the original and that helped me to see what the word actually said. Now I try to fully submit to His word and spirit (one in the same) and cast aside any feelings I have.

Yes, that can be hard, and we have to be honest and open satan comes as an angel of light, he has mastered the idea of taking words of truth and changing them ever so slightly and presenting them as truth from god, and its so easy to fall for it.

 

[SimpleGardner]

How can it be?

Do we focus on love so we do not break them

Or focus on the command, and fail to love (because we in reality focused on self and our ability to obay)

Wish you could hear yourself...Yahshua said they are one and the same.

If you "Love" then you keep all the commands!;

Joh 14:23-24 NIV

(23) Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

(24) He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

All I really hear is criticism of keeping Gods commands and I do NOT her much love in your words at all.

Own it EG, most of the time you argue against the one and fail to demonstrate the other!

SG

 

[SimpleGardner]

By Gods spirit we can do all things. With Jesus we can overcome. He came to save us from sin.

By giving us a new heart from which to become obedient to His commandments......

 

[RickStudies]

I studied the word hard as a young man, and had all these beliefes i knew was right, it was not until my later years i realized i was not as smart as i thought, and alot i was taught was wrong

And amazingly some stuff i could not see in some verses also opened up to me.

What makes you think it`s any different now? Maybe you make same mistake all over again.

 

[Grandpa]

There it is again, sounds like in a roundabout way you are telling me not to follow Jesus.

LOL!!!!!



Thats why Im constantly saying I believe we should follow Jesus, the ONLY shepherd, keep posting it and say that is what I seek to do with my life. The whole time continully says "I am not perfect" yet you still need to tell me how "imperfect I am"

This is onr of my 1st posts here, and I have been saying this over and over.



Yet you are telling me Jesus is too perfect to follow so I should follow Paul and at the same time saying I dont want to follow Jesus.

WOW. Just WOW.

I didn't say Jesus was too perfect to follow. You keep saying that.

I keep telling you that Paul shows us HOW to follow Christ.

But you keep missing that.


What I am saying is that God is too perfect to emulate by your own understanding and your own strength. But you can't quite grasp it.

It doesn't seem too exasperating for a Christian to tell you that you need Christ.

But to you it is. Kind of weird.