Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[eternally-gratefull]

Wish you could hear yourself...Yahshua said they are one and the same.

If you "Love" then you keep all the commands!;

Joh 14:23-24 NIV

(23) Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

(24) He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

I wish you could hear me, because this is exactly what i said, i have always maintained this, and it is all i have said all day.

IF we love WE WILL obey (just like jesus said)

LOVE fulfills the law

Notice what he does not say, “if we obey then we love.”


If we do not love, WE WILL NOT obey. (Just like i have been saying all day)

All I really hear is criticism of keeping Gods commands and I do NOT her much love in your words at all.

Own it EG, most of the time you argue against the one and fail to demonstrate the other!

SG

All you hear is what you want to hear, you can not comprehend what i say,

own what? What i have been saying? I do and i just did again, if we love, we will obey, if we do not love we will not,

I have not said anything different.


When will you own what i say? And admit you have been wrong in your assumptions

 

[eternally-gratefull]

By giving us a new heart from which to become obedient to His commandments......

BECAUSE WE LEARN TO LOVE.

Next..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What makes you think it`s any different now? Maybe you make same mistake all over again.

Maybe

But no one here has shown how i am doing this, in fact they keep misrepresenting me, which does goes to further lead me to believe i am right

Are you able to do this?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Same here brother! and honeslty for me it's a constant, every year I look back I feel He has taught me more and more in His word and in His ways, Im to the point now where I know there is ALWAYS more to learn and room to grow!

Hey brother thanks for being able to have a normal conversation, even if we end up in the end disagreeing you have shown many how one can disagree and actually have a disussion.

Look forward to conversing with you in he future,

 

[RickStudies]

Maybe

But no one here has shown how i am doing this, in fact they keep misrepresenting me, which does goes to further lead me to believe i am right

Are you able to do this?

No I can`t, real knowledge comes from the Holy Ghost and the openess of your heart to recieve determines what you are able to learn.
People tend to get swallowed by doctrine and the self talk that stems from that tends to interfere with recieving new revelation of the truth. Most people can`t look at things that are new to them with an open mind once they have been indoctrinated.


11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

 

[DeighAnn]

You are trying to justify working at the law.

What happens if you stop working at the law?

I could no less quit following the law as I could quit teaching Gods Law is Divine and eternal. Being justified has nothing to do with it. Knowing and teaching what is right from what is wrong in the eyes of God can only come from His Law. There is no other place to find the information. God demands we strive to do right and to obey. If we did not have to obey, there would be no law. When we break a law of God we must repent. If there were no laws we would not be told we must repent. The first words REPENT in and of itself screams My laws are being broken, change your heart and mind to the holy way of God and turn from the ways of the world.
The Word itself tells us we can be taken over by evil spirits. If you have not studied and referenced the law, you can not know what spirit you are following. It is all common sense. There was a time without the law once, and the law had to be brought in so that man would know when he was going against the will of God. To know the will of God you must know his laws. You can say what ever about how you follow love, but the only way to know the "love" you are following is if you know what God considers love. If you don't know Gods law you don't know Gods love and you are just going about making up your own religion. I understand that you have read the bible and know Gods law and have advanced to the part where the spirit leads you and you rest but then you just stop. It is like the scripture ended for you there. But what are we supposed to do next? Who are you supposed to be for God once He has given you wisdom and knowledge? GO, TEACH, BAPTISE. But you don't want to. You want to say You have attained and now you rest there because to go teach baptize you have to go back to the law to teach those who know nothing about it. But you can't do that because you teach against the law. You are stuck in your own pride within yourself because you want to make your "spiritual" walk with God all about you and not about being an Apostle which is what you are supposed to be. So you are stuck going against the very purpose of a God will lived life. And to prove it you keep teaching what you know, but refuse to teach others how you got there so you keep standing in the same place never either yourself advancing and worse than that never advanceing anyone else only causeing those who are beginning their journey to stumble because they can't understand what you are saying because you refuse to go back to the beginning again and do it for GOD and for them, which is the command given you. But that's right, you don't believe commands are to be followed because the spirit leads you. My question is why is the spirit not leading you to go teach and baptize? That's right because the law would once again have to be taught and followed to lead that person to Christ, and you have already been lead to Christ, and you walk in the love and service with the spirit and have no need of the law except for the command which tells us we are to go teach, which requires the law, which you have rested from.
Of course there is also the problem of those who follow the law, and your belief they have not the spirit because they would not be following the law if they did, AND YOU CAN'T IMAGINE THAT THEY HAVE WALKED PAST YOU AND ARE GOING ON TO TEACH AND BAPTISE WHICH REQUIRES THE LAWS TO BE TAUGHT, but if they are teaching the law then they don't have the spirit, so you can't go teach cause you have the spirit and with the spirit you don't need the law and anyone who follows the law can't have the spirit and once again you are stuck thinking that going back to the law is losing the spirit when in fact it is the spirit that sends you our to go teach which requires following that command which you can't do any of cause you are at rest and we who believe in the laws of God and the duty to obey them BECAUSE WE WERE JUSTIFIED, can't help it. You see the laws of God as evil and binding and death and you wish to be free of them. And you are. You can say and do what ever you want as you have proven time and again by using your "legalist" and "Judaizer" words knowing they only cause you to look like anything but a christian, and a mean bully to the children of God. Does it stop you, no because the spirit within you doesn't seem to have any say and to stop would mean you would have to be following a command of God which you don't do because you have the spirit in you.
And on and on and on it goes with you. Never a step forward, never a new revelation, Nothing new ever coming in from the Lord. Ever ask yourself why that would be? I would have my eyes and ears checked if I were you.
As I just wrote this out and am not going to go back and read it I am sure there are tons of mistakes for you to pounce on to make sure you don't change that precious "one" truth you believe you possess, I will move on trying not to break the least of Gods commandments and to teach others to do so. You do what you gotta do. I will pray right this second, that you can find wtihin yourself the courage to thrown yourself down on the Rock and be broken, and in humbleness and humility drop down in prayer and repentance and repent for your sins and for the remission of them, be washed clean, and go speak with God and ask Him to open your eyes and ears for His Will, not your own in your life to be done. I say this because these are always the most rewarding and cathartic moments in my life and always within short periods of time God opens my eyes to new knowledge and wisdom from Him, and sets straight my mind and heart.

 

[Grandpa]

I could no less quit following the law as I could quit teaching Gods Law is Divine and eternal. Being justified has nothing to do with it. Knowing and teaching what is right from what is wrong in the eyes of God can only come from His Law. There is no other place to find the information. God demands we strive to do right and to obey. If we did not have to obey, there would be no law. When we break a law of God we must repent. If there were no laws we would not be told we must repent. The first words REPENT in and of itself screams My laws are being broken, change your heart and mind to the holy way of God and turn from the ways of the world.
The Word itself tells us we can be taken over by evil spirits. If you have not studied and referenced the law, you can not know what spirit you are following. It is all common sense. There was a time without the law once, and the law had to be brought in so that man would know when he was going against the will of God. To know the will of God you must know his laws. You can say what ever about how you follow love, but the only way to know the "love" you are following is if you know what God considers love. If you don't know Gods law you don't know Gods love and you are just going about making up your own religion. I understand that you have read the bible and know Gods law and have advanced to the part where the spirit leads you and you rest but then you just stop. It is like the scripture ended for you there. But what are we supposed to do next? Who are you supposed to be for God once He has given you wisdom and knowledge? GO, TEACH, BAPTISE. But you don't want to. You want to say You have attained and now you rest there because to go teach baptize you have to go back to the law to teach those who know nothing about it. But you can't do that because you teach against the law. You are stuck in your own pride within yourself because you want to make your "spiritual" walk with God all about you and not about being an Apostle which is what you are supposed to be. So you are stuck going against the very purpose of a God will lived life. And to prove it you keep teaching what you know, but refuse to teach others how you got there so you keep standing in the same place never either yourself advancing and worse than that never advanceing anyone else only causeing those who are beginning their journey to stumble because they can't understand what you are saying because you refuse to go back to the beginning again and do it for GOD and for them, which is the command given you. But that's right, you don't believe commands are to be followed because the spirit leads you. My question is why is the spirit not leading you to go teach and baptize? That's right because the law would once again have to be taught and followed to lead that person to Christ, and you have already been lead to Christ, and you walk in the love and service with the spirit and have no need of the law except for the command which tells us we are to go teach, which requires the law, which you have rested from.
Of course there is also the problem of those who follow the law, and your belief they have not the spirit because they would not be following the law if they did, AND YOU CAN'T IMAGINE THAT THEY HAVE WALKED PAST YOU AND ARE GOING ON TO TEACH AND BAPTISE WHICH REQUIRES THE LAWS TO BE TAUGHT, but if they are teaching the law then they don't have the spirit, so you can't go teach cause you have the spirit and with the spirit you don't need the law and anyone who follows the law can't have the spirit and once again you are stuck thinking that going back to the law is losing the spirit when in fact it is the spirit that sends you our to go teach which requires following that command which you can't do any of cause you are at rest and we who believe in the laws of God and the duty to obey them BECAUSE WE WERE JUSTIFIED, can't help it. You see the laws of God as evil and binding and death and you wish to be free of them. And you are. You can say and do what ever you want as you have proven time and again by using your "legalist" and "Judaizer" words knowing they only cause you to look like anything but a christian, and a mean bully to the children of God. Does it stop you, no because the spirit within you doesn't seem to have any say and to stop would mean you would have to be following a command of God which you don't do because you have the spirit in you.
And on and on and on it goes with you. Never a step forward, never a new revelation, Nothing new ever coming in from the Lord. Ever ask yourself why that would be? I would have my eyes and ears checked if I were you.
As I just wrote this out and am not going to go back and read it I am sure there are tons of mistakes for you to pounce on to make sure you don't change that precious "one" truth you believe you possess, I will move on trying not to break the least of Gods commandments and to teach others to do so. You do what you gotta do. I will pray right this second, that you can find wtihin yourself the courage to thrown yourself down on the Rock and be broken, and in humbleness and humility drop down in prayer and repentance and repent for your sins and for the remission of them, be washed clean, and go speak with God and ask Him to open your eyes and ears for His Will, not your own in your life to be done. I say this because these are always the most rewarding and cathartic moments in my life and always within short periods of time God opens my eyes to new knowledge and wisdom from Him, and sets straight my mind and heart.

Exactly.

So you say with your words that you are not justified by law.

And yet you try to be justified by law.

See if you can draw your own conclusions from that. I shouldn't have to paint the picture for you.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[Grandpa]

No I can`t, real knowledge comes from the Holy Ghost and the openess of your heart to recieve determines what you are able to learn.
People tend to get swallowed by doctrine and the self talk that stems from that tends to interfere with recieving new revelation of the truth. Most people can`t look at things that are new to them with an open mind once they have been indoctrinated.


11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

How can you possibly quote these scriptures and NOT believe in the New Covenant?

Wouldn't you have to say none of this occurs until Christs 2nd coming?

How can we have the mind of Christ if it is not "written" on our minds?

How can we have a heart for God if it is not "written" on our hearts?

 

[RickStudies]

How can you possibly quote these scriptures and NOT believe in the New Covenant?

Wouldn't you have to say none of this occurs until Christs 2nd coming?

How can we have the mind of Christ if it is not "written" on our minds?

How can we have a heart for God if it is not "written" on our hearts?

If you had paid attention to what I was really saying instead of making a bunch of assumptions you wouldn`t need to ask.

In the age to come the New Covenant will be the law for the entire world. No man has even read the New Covenant apart from the spiritual provisions that have already been revealed. Granted, what has been revealed about it is I`m pretty sure the most important part. As ministers of the new testament we recieve a down payment, the earnest of the Spirit the Bible tells us.

I can`t order a mountain to throw itself into the sea and lions don`t eat the grass because I`m not in the fullness of the New Covenant yet.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No I can`t, real knowledge comes from the Holy Ghost and the openess of your heart to recieve determines what you are able to learn.
People tend to get swallowed by doctrine and the self talk that stems from that tends to interfere with recieving new revelation of the truth. Most people can`t look at things that are new to them with an open mind once they have been indoctrinated.


11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

Since i have been here

Pentecostles, baptists, legalists, hyper gracers, amills, premills, pretrib, post trib, tongues anti-tongues, all have stated they get knowledge from the holy ghost.

They cant all be right,

So while i agree true knowledge comes from the Hs, and to many are focused on doctrine, there has to be more than just listening to the HS, because not everyone who things they listen to the spirit are right,

Do you agree?

 

[SimpleGardner]

I wish you could hear me, because this is exactly what i said, i have always maintained this, and it is all i have said all day.

IF we love WE WILL obey (just like jesus said)

LOVE fulfills the law

Notice what he does not say, “if we obey then we love.”


If we do not love, WE WILL NOT obey. (Just like i have been saying all day)



All you hear is what you want to hear, you can not comprehend what i say,

own what? What i have been saying? I do and i just did again, if we love, we will obey, if we do not love we will not,

I have not said anything different.


When will you own what i say? And admit you have been wrong in your assumptions

So then, What is "Love"?

Hint, Yahshua tells us in John 14:21

SG

 

[RickStudies]

Since i have been here

Pentecostles, baptists, legalists, hyper gracers, amills, premills, pretrib, post trib, tongues anti-tongues, all have stated they get knowledge from the holy ghost.

They cant all be right,

So while i agree true knowledge comes from the Hs, and to many are focused on doctrine, there has to be more than just listening to the HS, because not everyone who things they listen to the spirit are right,

Do you agree?

No I don`t agree. His grace is sufficient. The Holy Ghost speaks to us through preachers, teachers, brethren, the Bible, sometimes through events in our lives, dreams. Many different ways the Spirit teaches. It`s not a form of mysticism although he will guide your path, impress insight into your mind, and give you discernment. Those are just my experiences, there are gifts to go beyond what I have been blessed with.

It`s all about letting the pollution fall away from your mind and your heart and being open to the things of God. It`s about bring yourself into agreement with God`s will, to see things Yeshuas way instead of your way which is the flesh way.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I didn't say Jesus was too perfect to follow. You keep saying that.

I keep telling you that Paul shows us HOW to follow Christ.

But you keep missing that.


What I am saying is that God is too perfect to emulate by your own understanding and your own strength. But you can't quite grasp it.

It doesn't seem too exasperating for a Christian to tell you that you need Christ.

But to you it is. Kind of weird.

Does Paul say to "Follow Yahshua the way I do" Or does Paul say; " I follow Yahshua, You should too!"?

SG

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So then, What is "Love"?

Hint, Yahshua tells us in John 14:21

SG

You have to add 1 john 4 to that.

1 John 4 New King James Version (NKJV)

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

Seeing God Through Love
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son asSavior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

The Consummation of Love
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love [c]Him because He first loved us.

Obedience by Faith
20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, [d]how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

See its mot just loving god, but it is also loving one another

Your to stuck on commands, i can not fathom how you understand love

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No I don`t agree. His grace is sufficient. The Holy Ghost speaks to us through preachers, teachers, brethren, the Bible, sometimes through events in our lives, dreams. Many different ways the Spirit teaches. It`s not a form of mysticism although he will guide your path, impress insight into your mind, and give you discernment. Those are just my experiences, there are gifts to go beyond what I have been blessed with.

It`s all about letting the pollution fall away from your mind and your heart and being open to the things of God. It`s about bring yourself into agreement with God`s will, to see things Yeshuas way instead of your way which is the flesh way.

True
But everyone thinks they hear from the HS

You can not just assume you d and another person does,

Thats where people get in trouble and why we have so many belief systems all claiming inspiration from the HS

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Does Paul say to "Follow Yahshua the way I do" Or does Paul say; " I follow Yahshua, You should too!"?

SG

Did paul follow jesus different than Jesus?

 

[SimpleGardner]

Amen, sometimes it is hard to let go, but we have to be open, or we risk trouble, its foolish to think you are right at all cost, then in reality to be wrong, and never see it because your too proud to be open to the fact you may be wrong (this was me for years, yes i admit to being a fool!).

So, as you were asked, could you still be wrong?

SG

 

[SimpleGardner]

You have to add 1 john 4 to that.

1 John 4 New King James Version (NKJV)

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

Seeing God Through Love
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son asSavior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

The Consummation of Love
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love [c]Him because He first loved us.

Obedience by Faith
20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, [d]how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

See its mot just loving god, but it is also loving one another

Your to stuck on commands, i can not fathom how you understand love

1Jn 3:4-10 NIV

(4) Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

(5) But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

(6) No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

(7) Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

(8) He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.

(9) No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

(10) This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

 

[RickStudies]

True
But everyone thinks they hear from the HS

You can not just assume you d and another person does,

Thats where people get in trouble and why we have so many belief systems all claiming inspiration from the HS

That`s one of the reasons why words and works are important because they are products of the salvation easily discerned by the people around you. Outside of a few simple things perfect doctrine isn`t required. Some here are to quick to judge, to quick to conclude someone is heretic.

 

[SimpleGardner]

You have to add 1 john 4 to that.

1 John 4 New King James Version (NKJV)

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

Seeing God Through Love
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son asSavior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

The Consummation of Love
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love [c]Him because He first loved us.

Obedience by Faith
20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, [d]how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

See its mot just loving god, but it is also loving one another

Your to stuck on commands, i can not fathom how you understand love

Joh 14:15 NIV

(15) "If you love me, you will obey what I command.


Joh 14:23 NIV

(23) Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.


Joh 15:10 NIV

(10) If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.


1Jn_5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

Perhaps you once valued obedience, and accountability and left it behind.