Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[eternally-gratefull]

Agreed. I like to read everything Jesus said over and over year after year, someone just called me talking about something Jesus said and pointed out a minor detail that I never noticed before, so awesome!

I studied the word hard as a young man, and had all these beliefes i knew was right, it was not until my later years i realized i was not as smart as i thought, and alot i was taught was wrong

And amazingly some stuff i could not see in some verses also opened up to me.

 

[NayborBear]

Tell him to start posting in English

I know, I have tried to esplain to DivineWaterMark, to take all that "data", and put it in his own words. Not sure if others have though.
To the point, that I hardly ever answer his postings, as I can never get to the end of 'em.
But, that one "caught my eye." That "somewhere" between his ears, he recognizes that "something big" is goin' on.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, and ppl hate this verse but it is true. I think Jer 31 style, it may not be overnight but there will be a chage in those who accept His spirit.

Matt 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

Yep

But this is NOT because people are not following the law

It is because they spend their days loving self, and not loving god and others

The end result, is they break commands, not just commands found in the law. Which is not an exhaustive list of sins.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes and Yes, it is a constant pressing in on our part...a seek, knock, ask. Demonstrations of Loving YHWH with all our heart, mind, strength.

I read many citations of verse 1-3 below, but rarely see verses 4-6

Rom 8:1-6 NIV

(1) Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

(2) because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

(3) For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,

(4) in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

SG

(5) Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

(6) The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;

There is a learning to hear what the spirit says

Heb 3:7-13 NIV

(7) So, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you hear his voice,

(8) do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert,

(9) where your fathers tested and tried me and for forty years saw what I did.

(10) That is why I was angry with that generation, and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.'

(11) So I declared on oath in my anger, "They shall never enter my rest.'"

(12) See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.

(13) But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.


"Turning away from the Living God" in my understanding is to refuse to "hear" His Holy Spirit when He speaks to you....

Yes

And this goes for everyone. So we need to look in the mirror when we say such things,

 

[Guojing]

Lol,,

You know what funny?

I am not making accusations about people, my accusations is adressing the accusations made against me.

Oh wait, everyone sees that, i guess i can just sit back and laugh at people falling over themselves to attack EG because they do not like what he has to say about certain doctrines.

Where is the popcorn?

No one is attacking you. Like dcon, you often act like a jerk whenever you disagree with others and you fail to persuade them to see what you see.

You can preach your truth without acting like one. You just need to realize that everyone sees things differently from you. If yours is indeed "the truth", they will come to it in their own timing, not yours.

 

[TMS]

What defines sin today?
It isn't the morals of man, or laws that change. It isn't the laws of moses because many of them pointed to Jesus and were fulfilled by Christ. There must be a standard that defined sin from the start to the end. From Adam to today. ??

 

[NayborBear]

I don't mind clarifying, with regard to anything I've put (that is, if you were referring to my posts )




[for one thing: "this present age [singular]" (/the "NOW") is not the equivalent of "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" that Jesus (and His disciples) referred to in Matt24:3 (includ'g His response in 2 chpts) and Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 upon which their later Matt24:3 Q was based]

Ya see this post? Can't tell if you are trying to "dazzle with brilliance", er "baffle with bs."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No one is attacking you. Like dcon, you often act like a jerk whenever you disagree with others and you fail to persuade them to see what you see.

Whatever dude, everyone who looks see it is the other way around

We have normal conversation until they start to false accuse, or start attacking those who disagree with them.

You can preach your truth without acting like one. You just need to realize that everyone sees things differently from you. If yours is indeed "the truth", they will come to it in their own timing, not yours.

I never said otherwise

No one wants to talk about the word, they want to attack people who disagrees with them. And when they get called out on it, they get mad and you see the result

I do not agree with alot you post, but i do not attack you, i just do not respond to you once we give out views about something because i do not see you attack others and say things a out them which are not true

I should recieve the same courtesy, we ALL should!

 

[TMS]

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Matt 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Matt 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[Grandpa]

ONCE AGAIN, NOT TO BE JUSTIFIED. DIFFERENT THINGS.

You are trying to justify working at the law.

What happens if you stop working at the law?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What defines sin today?
It isn't the morals of man, or laws that change. It isn't the laws of moses because many of them pointed to Jesus and were fulfilled by Christ. There must be a standard that defined sin from the start to the end. From Adam to today. ??

Love

Is my action or mind at that moment rooted in love of god and others

Or is it rooted in taking care of my own needs, ignoring god and others

Knowing to do good and not doing it is sin, why? Because we have at that point failed to love god, or the person we were supposed to do good to, and decided to do what we want (serve self)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Matt 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Matt 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

You can see my matt 5 that the law is not an exhaustive list of sin, jesus had to add to that command what was not there to show we can still literally ibey that command, yet be in sin.

That is why the law is useless in showing us true morality according to Gods standard,

 

[TMS]

From the post above "sin is the transgressions of the law", and the law is love for God and love for each other. The Ten commandments are an expanssion , or exemplified look at love for God (first four) and love for each other (last 6).

 

[Grandpa]

Well when you said this it seemed like you were saying yes Jesus is our example but we cant follow Him so we follow Paul:



I still wonder if I have a perfect example, and Jesus says to follow Him, why would I follow a imperfect example.

He says follow His example and Him:

John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”

John 10:27-30, " 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

Its pretty clear what I said.

You are not perfect. You are not Christ.

You don't have Christs understanding or power. So how are you going to do what He does?


Well, you're not, quite frankly. You are not going to be crucified and die for the sins of the world. You are not going to give people rest who work at the law but can't be perfected by it. You are not going to produce spiritual fruit in other peoples lives.

But if you REALLY want to follow Christ then you will listen to Paul. I'm kind of getting the feeling you don't really want to follow Christ. If you did, then how come you don't understand what I am saying? And I've said it at least 3 times maybe 4?

 

[TMS]

You can see my matt 5 that the law is not an exhaustive list of sin, jesus had to add to that command what was not there to show we can still literally ibey that command, yet be in sin.

That is why the law is useless in showing us true morality according to Gods standard,

The laws (10 commandment), if obeyed the way they should be, we would be perfect. Jesus needed to explain these laws deeper because we mess up everything good.
Love is a summary of the laws, which can be expanded into 10, than 100, but the law is still our standard of sin. The 10 commandments still defines sin.

 

[Grandpa]

Please look into it first. Find in Amos where Paul is speaking from in Romans chapter you quoted from.

SG

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.


31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.


32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


So which one here is lawless?
Which one is the worker of iniquity?
Which one is the fruitless work of darkness?
Which one is under the curse and condemnation?


Which one is Righteous?
Which one is the fruitful work of light?
Which one has Life?


I don't think it really gets any more simple than this. I think we can show this to 3rd graders and they could probably match them up.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The laws (10 commandment), if obeyed the way they should be, we would be perfect. Jesus needed to explain these laws deeper because we mess up everything good.
Love is a summary of the laws, which can be expanded into 10, than 100, but the law is still our standard of sin. The 10 commandments still defines sin.

What?

No, the ten commands do not show how to be perfect.

If i know ro do right and do not do it it is sin

The ten commands does not tell me this

If i think in lust of a woman, i am in sin, the ten commands does not show this

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.


31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.


32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


So which one here is lawless?
Which one is the worker of iniquity?
Which one is the fruitless work of darkness?
Which one is under the curse and condemnation?


Which one is Righteous?
Which one is the fruitful work of light?
Which one has Life?


I don't think it really gets any more simple than this. I think we can show this to 3rd graders and they could probably match them up.

And you really expect an answer to those questions?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@wokinluv lets try this again

Who (in gods standard, not mans standard) keeps (fulfills) the law?

 

[TMS]

If there is no law, standard of rightousness today, there is no sin today.
If there is no sin, we don't need Christ today because we don't need forgiveness. Keeping the law does not save us but taking the law away means we don't need salvation.