Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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mailmandan

mailmandan

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#3,261
Apr 7, 2014
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Noose said:
Calm down.
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I'm perfectly calm ;)

All
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men have sinned and fallen short of the glory. So all men are in Adam, not some.
All men likewise have been reconciled with God by Christ, so all men are justified in Christ. Christ did not die for some people but all people.
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so all men in Christ are justified. (I fixed it for you) :)

Rom 5:10For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son,
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Read the rest - much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Who shall be saved? Everyone or those who have faith in Jesus? (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8)

My Church?!, The church of God.
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As in the worldwide church of God? :unsure:
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

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Aug 16, 2019
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Noose said:
Nope. Never said that and i don't know what you are talking about.
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Look into God’s heart. Do you honestly think our grand, majestic, loving and merciful Creator is going to damn little children who have never heard his word? Obviously this is your stance because you preach it over and over again.
 
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Noose

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Apr 18, 2016
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mailmandan said:
so all men in Christ are justified. (I fixed it for you) :)

Read the rest - much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Who shall be saved? Everyone or those who have faith in Jesus? (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8)

:unsure:
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And you don't get it.

If sin means separation from God and you are reconciled with God, do you still habour sin?
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#3,268
Jul 8, 2018
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#3,268
Noose said:
All men means all mankind. Adam's disobedience brought condemnation to all men (mankind) and in the same manner, Jesus' obedience brought justification and life to all men (mankind).

Jesus died for us while we were still sinners; why would He die from some sinners only?

Your interpretation of John 6:38-40 is wrong. It doesn't talk of Jesus dying for some people.
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John 6:38 says that all that he died for, he would not lose any of them, but raise them all up at the last day. If he died for all mankind, then all mankind would be raised up at the last day and that will not harmonize with the scriptures that say some will go to everlasting punishment.
 
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Noose

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Apr 18, 2016
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Lightskin said:
Look into God’s heart. Do you honestly think our grand, majestic, loving and merciful Creator is going to damn little children who have never heard his word? Obviously this is your stance because you preach it over and over again.
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But that's my point, they never get to hear the gospel but are saved. And we are all told to change and become like little children to inherit the kingdom- so it is not about hearing and murmuring something about Christ but loving one an other.
 
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Noose

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Apr 18, 2016
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fredoheaven said:
It would be better if you go through a good dictionary, I would suggest OED or the 1828 Webster Dictionary.:)
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Rom 5:18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#3,271
#3,271
ForestGreenCook said:
John 6:38 says that all that he died for, he would not lose any of them, but raise them all up at the last day. If he died for all mankind, then all mankind would be raised up at the last day and that will not harmonize with the scriptures that say some will go to everlasting punishment.
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John 6: 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”


Nothing in here says all he died on the cross for, you need to correct your wording
 
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Noose

Senior Member
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Apr 18, 2016
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ForestGreenCook said:
John 6:38 says that all that he died for, he would not lose any of them, but raise them all up at the last day. If he died for all mankind, then all mankind would be raised up at the last day and that will not harmonize with the scriptures that say some will go to everlasting punishment.
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It harmonizes perfectly.

Christ died and reconciled all men to God but in the end, only a few stand saved. Means that it is what we do that makes us satnd or fall in the end. Those that abide in Christ's love and endure to the end are saved.

John 15:
5“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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#3,273
Nov 17, 2015
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Noose said:
Jesus said, if you don't change and become like children, you shall not inherit the kingdom. I does not mean you lose the ability to understand the gospel.

Nowhere does the scripture insinuate safety. We are all saved from Sin, young and old alike.
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That change as in my previous post is having a child-like faith, you need to humble down and look for the mercies of God.
 
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ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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mailmandan said:
At first glance this verse may appear to suggest that all men will be justified (accounted as righteous) but the context of Romans and the NT clearly indicates the reference is all men who are justified by faith in Christ alone alone. Paul is not teaching universalism or that all men will be justified (saved) which is clearly not in harmony with the rest of the book of Romans. Christ’s sacrifice paid for the sins of the whole world, but that does not mean that the whole world will be saved. (Acts 10:43; 13:39)

The kind of faith that I am teaching is the same kind of faith that the Bible is teaching. (Romans 3:24-28; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..). It’s yours spurious faith that trusts in works for salvation that is in question. The kind of faith that saves is the kind of faith and trusts in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
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Then, does John 6:38 specify that he died for all mankind? The way it reads, to me, is that he only died for those that God gave him and that all that he died for will will have eternal life, so if you are saying that he died for all mankind, would not all mankind have eternal life. May be that I am missing the meaning of this verse, can you explain to me?
 
PennEd

PennEd

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Apr 22, 2013
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Noose said:
What does this mean?

Rom 5:18Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

At least you accept that He died for all men unlike some here.
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It means that His Act of dying for people's sin to be justified is AVAILABLE to ALL people.

NOT that ALL people WILL avail themselves in Him.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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#3,277
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

FREE GIFT, better receive it, it's totally free! That takes faith.

Romans 5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
 
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ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Noose said:
It harmonizes perfectly.

Christ died and reconciled all men to God but in the end, only a few stand saved. Means that it is what we do that makes us satnd or fall in the end. Those that abide in Christ's love and endure to the end are saved.

John 15:
5“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
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You are confused in thinking that when a child of God commits a sin that he is going to be cut off from his eternal inheritance and go to everlasting punishment. When a child of God sins, he takes himself away from his fellowship with God until the Holy Spirit within him pricks his new heart and he repents, then he is back in good fellowship with God. It is the same explanation that we get from the event of the youngest son leaving his father's home and finally comes to himself and goes back home. He was always his father's son during the time he was away from home. You have a false belief that, once you are eternally saved, that you can lose that salvation when you turn away from God by lusting after the things of the world, and this thinking also does not harmonize with John 6:38.
 
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ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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PennEd said:
It means that His Act of dying for people's sin to be justified is AVAILABLE to ALL people.

NOT that ALL people WILL avail themselves in Him.
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Then, how do you interpret John 6:38 to harmonize with that thought?
 
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