Are we born into this world with the Spirit of Christ?

[Pisteuo]

I was saved at the age of 5.

of course I knew the diff between right and wrong

I had heard about Jesus in SS and I agreed I needed to 'ask Him into my heart' I was alone though when I did that and after I had prayed and asked God if He were real to show me by answering a pray and He did so immediately and so I got on my knees and ask 'Jesus to come into my heart' as children are taught.

but for sure it 'took' I told everyone I could what had happened and I could not wait to tell my Sunday School teacher about it

so I might be one step ahead now, but something has to happen besides mental assent. but I guess I have a bit of a different experience, being a child and thinking as a child when I accepted Christ

but go ahead. with you so far

Ya, I appreciate us getting to this spot in the salvation journey still in agreement. It's been like pulling teeth to get anyone to this point. With that said, here is where the work for us begins.

At this point without repeating the state we are in at this point, we are ready to take our first step of saving Faith towards God.

Saving Faith is defined in the Greek texts as "pisteuo". The corresponding verb to the noun Pistis. Pistis is where we get our English word Faith from. Pisteuo, could not be translated into the English language. The reason is the English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun Faith like the Greek does for the noun Pistis. So when the translators were forced to find a word or words to come close to the complete definition of pisteuo, they chose the words believe, believer, and believing.

True pisteuo is an act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence. Accually, that is also the definition of a verb.

Now Faith or what I call faithing towards God, pisteuo, is a specific act, based upon a specific belief, sustained by a specific kind of confidence. Believing is a part of pisteuo, but taken on it's own is error.

Pisteuo in the Vines Greek dictionary is defined as" a personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender. Producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation of truth."

So this first step towards God done correctly, is a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender! This correct understanding makes Christ the one accepting us instead of us accepting Him.

Remember, the Spirit of Christ, Christ, His word and the promises in His word are not ours yet, so we can't just "accept Him" He is not ours to accept, we don't have His Spirit yet. We can't claim Him or His promises until we receive His Spirit first.

Am I making my point?

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hi @Pisteuo, there is Greek 101, and then there is Greek ~verb~ 101, which for Biblical Greek teachers and students is your user name, Pisteuo, as I'm sure you already know. My question, therefore, is this, if what you say about pisteuo is true, why do you think that there has been so much confusion about its true/principle meaning* over the millennia by all of our linguists?

*(I believe that trusting God, and surrendering the reins of our lives to Him because we do, is certainly part of coming to/living in faith, due to the "gift" of saving faith that God gives to all of us who are His .. Ephesians 2:8)

One final question, why didn't the Lord and the Apostle Paul use paradidomi (e.g. 1 Corinthians 13:3) instead of pisteuo (if what you are saying is true of pisteuo), since paradidomi's principle meaning is "surrender" (1. to give into the hands (of another). 2. to give over into (one’s) power or use)

Thanks!

~Deut

 

[Pisteuo]

Hi @Pisteuo, there is Greek 101, and then there is Greek ~verb~ 101, which for Biblical Greek teachers and students is your user name, Pisteuo, as I'm sure you already know. My question, therefore, is this, if what you say about pisteuo is true, why do you think that there has been so much confusion about its true/principle meaning* over the millennia by all of our linguists?

*(I believe that trusting God, and surrendering the reins of our lives to Him because we do, is certainly part of coming to/living in faith, due to the "gift" of saving faith that God gives to all of us who are His .. Ephesians 2:8)

One final question, why didn't the Lord and the Apostle Paul use paradidomi (e.g. 1 Corinthians 13:3) instead of pisteuo (if what you are saying is true of pisteuo), since paradidomi's principle meaning is "surrender" (1. to give into the hands (of another). 2. to give over into (one’s) power or use)

Thanks!

~Deut

It was a linguist that pointed out that pisteuo couldn't be correctly translated into the English language, that was over 30 years ago. It was my experience through the personal relationship with Christ by Faith, by faithing, that solidified my understanding of it.

I haven't done much research on what other linguists think, my teacher did much of that in His teachings.

The bottom line, is that when the translators chose the words believe, believer, and believing, they inadvertently changed the"object of Faith" from God Himself a realationship with a real living person, to God's word and His promises.

The Greek doesn't even have a word in their language for the English words believe, believer, and believing. They only acknowledge a state of pisteuo, faithing towards God, or apisteuo, faithing away from God. A continually surrendered life is faithing towards God, anything else is faithing away from God. No middle or neutral ground such as believing.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pisteuo]

Hi @Pisteuo, there is Greek 101, and then there is Greek ~verb~ 101, which for Biblical Greek teachers and students is your user name, Pisteuo, as I'm sure you already know. My question, therefore, is this, if what you say about pisteuo is true, why do you think that there has been so much confusion about its true/principle meaning* over the millennia by all of our linguists?

*(I believe that trusting God, and surrendering the reins of our lives to Him because we do, is certainly part of coming to/living in faith, due to the "gift" of saving faith that God gives to all of us who are His .. Ephesians 2:8)

One final question, why didn't the Lord and the Apostle Paul use paradidomi (e.g. 1 Corinthians 13:3) instead of pisteuo (if what you are saying is true of pisteuo), since paradidomi's principle meaning is "surrender" (1. to give into the hands (of another). 2. to give over into (one’s) power or use)

Thanks!

~Deut

Also, like I stated, pisteuo is the corresponding verb to the noun Pistis in the Greek. The words believe, believer, and believing, are corresponding verbs to the noun Belief! Another word the Greek does not acknowledge.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Ya, I appreciate us getting to this spot in the salvation journey still in agreement. It's been like pulling teeth to get anyone to this point. With that said, here is where the work for us begins.

At this point without repeating the state we are in at this point, we are ready to take our first step of saving Faith towards God.

Saving Faith is defined in the Greek texts as "pisteuo". The corresponding verb to the noun Pistis. Pistis is where we get our English word Faith from. Pisteuo, could not be translated into the English language. The reason is the English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun Faith like the Greek does for the noun Pistis. So when the translators were forced to find a word or words to come close to the complete definition of pisteuo, they chose the words believe, believer, and believing.

True pisteuo is an act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence. Accually, that is also the definition of a verb.

Now Faith or what I call faithing towards God, pisteuo, is a specific act, based upon a specific belief, sustained by a specific kind of confidence. Believing is a part of pisteuo, but taken on it's own is error.

Pisteuo in the Vines Greek dictionary is defined as" a personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender. Producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation of truth."

So this first step towards God done correctly, is a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender! This correct understanding makes Christ the one accepting us instead of us accepting Him.

Remember, the Spirit of Christ, Christ, His word and the promises in His word are not ours yet, so we can't just "accept Him" He is not ours to accept, we don't have His Spirit yet. We can't claim Him or His promises until we receive His Spirit first.

Am I making my point?

well then what does 'whosoever will mean'

Christ already put it all 'out there' so we can accept Him. I certainly did and do; of course I am no longer the 5 yr old child

here is an analogy, not that far off from scripture actually

if a man asks a woman to marry him, she is accepting him if she says yes

he is not accepting her. he already made the offer for her to accept

Vines is not the best, but can be helpful

I know what Pisteo means apart from you using it as your forum name

 

[Whispered]

I would like to discuss the Salvation process. And I want to start at the very beginning of everyones life.

I'll do this by asking a series of questions that will establish points of reference during our journey.

1) Are we born into this world with the Spirit of Christ already in us?

Yes or No?

Yes. Below is the link to a bible study site we've just found with our group. I've posted the link to the comparative scripture of 1 Peter 1. The American Standard Version & the Greek Interlinear Version, because the NT was originally written in Greek.

1 Peter 1:10 Concerning which salvation the prophets sought and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 searching what time or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did point unto, when it testified beforehand the sufferings [d]of Christ, and the glories that should follow them. 12 To whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto you, did they minister these things, which now have been announced unto you through them that [e]preached the gospel unto you [f]by the Holy Spirit sent forth from heaven; which things angels desire to look into.

Pneuma Christos - Spirit (of) Christ
Pneuma , Wind, Breath, Spirit,
Strong's Greek, https://biblehub.com/greek/4151.htm

Christos , the Anointed One, Messiah, Christ
https://biblehub.com/str/greek/5547.htm

What I believe is this. In the beginning God created all things. Including the first people of which we are their relations. And all these things were created by God, of God's power and holy spirit. And as such all that exists is of God because all is created for God's glory.
We are never truly separated from God when all that exists is of God.
We're told no one comes to the Messiah, Christ, unless the rather calls them. I think that means there is a resonance, a harmony, a hearkening unto that which is familiar, familial, because God is our creator, the father of us all. And those who are so broken, so lost, so desperate for saving are also open to being saved from what troubles them. And that's when they hear the call of the father to return home.
That's just my thoughts.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Yes. Below is the link to a bible study site we've just found with our group. I've posted the link to the comparative scripture of 1 Peter 1. The American Standard Version & the Greek Interlinear Version, because the NT was originally written in Greek.

1 Peter 1:10 Concerning which salvation the prophets sought and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 searching what time or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did point unto, when it testified beforehand the sufferings [d]of Christ, and the glories that should follow them. 12 To whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto you, did they minister these things, which now have been announced unto you through them that [e]preached the gospel unto you [f]by the Holy Spirit sent forth from heaven; which things angels desire to look into.

Pneuma Christos - Spirit (of) Christ
Pneuma , Wind, Breath, Spirit,
Strong's Greek, https://biblehub.com/greek/4151.htm

Christos , the Anointed One, Messiah, Christ
https://biblehub.com/str/greek/5547.htm

What I believe is this. In the beginning God created all things. Including the first people of which we are their relations. And all these things were created by God, of God's power and holy spirit. And as such all that exists is of God because all is created for God's glory.
We are never truly separated from God when all that exists is of God.
We're told no one comes to the Messiah, Christ, unless the rather calls them. I think that means there is a resonance, a harmony, a hearkening unto that which is familiar, familial, because God is our creator, the father of us all. And those who are so broken, so lost, so desperate for saving are also open to being saved from what troubles them. And that's when they hear the call of the father to return home.
That's just my thoughts.

why does scripture tell us we are separated from God because of sin if, as you suggest, we are simply responding to some kind of cosmic harmony?

sinners are in rebellion against God and the Bible says that rebellion against God is as the sin of witchcraft

why do people shake their fist in the face of God and blame Him for their troubles?

I think the Bible has the preferred answer to the questions and not some resonance or philharmonic orchestra in outer space

 

[Pisteuo]

well then what does 'whosoever will mean'

Christ already put it all 'out there' so we can accept Him. I certainly did and do; of course I am no longer the 5 yr old child

here is an analogy, not that far off from scripture actually

if a man asks a woman to marry him, she is accepting him if she says yes

he is not accepting her. he already made the offer for her to accept

Vines is not the best, but can be helpful

I know what Pisteo means apart from you using it as your forum name

Without looking it up, the word "whosoever" would be a different Greek word.

Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT.

What about the Strong's Greek dictionaries definition?
"Pisteuo means NOT just to believe."

I like the marriage analogy. True pisteuo is a covenant, a contract with God. Such asa marriage is with another person.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Without looking it up, the word "whosoever" would be a different Greek word.

Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT.

What about the Strong's Greek dictionaries definition?
"Pisteuo means NOT just to believe."

I like the marriage analogy. True pisteuo is a covenant, a contract with God. Such asa marriage is with another person.

let's focus on 'whosoever' and no idea what you are saying with regards to same

did you know that 'whosoever' is found 511 times in12 translations?

what are we talking about here?

I got what pisteuo means but not quite getting what you are trying to say about it

 

[Pisteuo]

let's focus on 'whosoever' and no idea what you are saying with regards to same

did you know that 'whosoever' is found 511 times in12 translations?

what are we talking about here?

I got what pisteuo means but not quite getting what you are trying to say about it

My focus is on what true NT saving Faith is. Salvation is by Grace through Faith, Pistis. Pistis is applied by the corresponding verb pisteuo.

I've explained what true NT pisteuo is and what it's not.

The church world is mistakenly " believing" what Christ did and promises for
salvation, and that's not saving Faith or Faithing. That is the focus here. We haven't even got to the point where the Spirit of Christ, Christ, His word, and His promises are ours to even talk about. Our discussion is still outside of Christ!

You understand that the called believe and then receive the Spirit of Christ. How can that happen when that would be claiming Christ when he not yours?

I need an answer to that!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

My focus is on what true NT saving Faith is. Salvation is by Grace through Faith, Pistis. Pistis is applied by the corresponding verb pisteuo.

I've explained what true NT pisteuo is and what it's not.

The church world is mistakenly " believing" what Christ did and promises for
salvation, and that's not saving Faith or Faithing. That is the focus here. We haven't even got to the point where the Spirit of Christ, Christ, His word, and His promises are ours to even talk about. Our discussion is still outside of Christ!

You understand that the called believe and then receive the Spirit of Christ. How can that happen when that would be claiming Christ when he not yours?

I need an answer to that!

sigh

what do you call this belief exactly? the one that you say most have got wrong?

I understand you are trying to lead people into what you think will be an aha moment and have been doing that from the get go of your op

the unco-operative hoard here, of which I seem to be a part, just would not quit squirming and listen

please let's just say the amen and dig in

 

[NayborBear]

I think one of the reasons you are having quite a time in gaining traction with your (uh) strategy? Is because I think you are under assuming the knowledge of the audience you are addressing.

Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Whilst I believe this to be true. And, I think you do also. As things must be done, so the believer may be healed, in a certain order? The "strategy" your using? "Ladies and gentlemen!" "Attention PLEASE!" "Come in close so EVERYONE can see!" "I got a "tale to tell", a listen won't cost a dime!" (snickers) "If you believe THAT?" "We're gonna git along jez FINE!"

In my years of being a Christian? I came to the conclusion some time ago? Where 2 or 3 are gathered in Jesus' name, does not make it a MANDATE that Christ is AGREEING with "all, or ANY of the goings on of such a gathering. Which comes as a shock to some people, as "bad things STILL "happen" to good people.

If people were (how can I say) "hot house lilies", and all the same? I'd agree with such strategy. But, they're not. Leastwise, I'm not!
and, from the "lack of traction?" I don't think I'm the only one.

Just go on and "cut to the chase", so to speak.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

that's what I said

say amen and dig in

cut to the chase

lay it on the table

split the deck

go for it

spill the beans

remember the Alamo...ok maybe not that one

 

[7seasrekeyed]

In my years of being a Christian? I came to the conclusion some time ago? Where 2 or 3 are gathered in Jesus' name, does not make it a MANDATE that Christ is AGREEING with "all, or ANY of the goings on of such a gathering. Which comes as a shock to some people, as "bad things STILL "happen" to good people.

wake up call

smell the coffee

rude awakening

alarm bell

can't think of any more at the moment but very good point

Jesus is shaking His head at some of those gathered in His name

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Do we receive the Spirit of Christ at the moment of accountability?

No do you understand what the age of accountability Is?It Is when a person becomes aware of sin.

We receive the SPIRIT of GOD upon being REborn.

The WORD of GOD came to earth manifested In flesh (JESUS) had MERCY on us and paid penalty for us breaking the law (perfect standard of righteousness) and satisfied the demand of the law which meant death to those who broke the law.

We could not fulfill the law perfectly according to GODs perfect standard of righteousness (the law) because of the weakness of our flesh.

That’s when the person realizes that they are breaking GODs law which would be understood by their conscience realizing that they are guilty.

Romans 7:20-23
King James Version



20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Side note the children Of Israel broke the law that GOD gave Moses but those of us today are a law unto themselves talking about your conscience.

 

[NayborBear]

Hoping the admins can delete those awful pictures!
DISGUSTING!!

 

[Whispered]

Colossians 1:19 For it was the good pleasure of the Father that in him should all the fulness dwell; 20 and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens. 21 And you, being in time past alienated and enemies in your mind in your evil works, 22 yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and without blemish and unreproveable before him:

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Hoping the admins can delete those awful pictures!
DISGUSTING!!

I thought they were proofreading the material of the post before they allow the post.
That post was the worst I’ve seen on here.

 

[Pisteuo]

I think one of the reasons you are having quite a time in gaining traction with your (uh) strategy? Is because I think you are under assuming the knowledge of the audience you are addressing.

Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Whilst I believe this to be true. And, I think you do also. As things must be done, so the believer may be healed, in a certain order? The "strategy" your using? "Ladies and gentlemen!" "Attention PLEASE!" "Come in close so EVERYONE can see!" "I got a "tale to tell", a listen won't cost a dime!" (snickers) "If you believe THAT?" "We're gonna git along jez FINE!"

In my years of being a Christian? I came to the conclusion some time ago? Where 2 or 3 are gathered in Jesus' name, does not make it a MANDATE that Christ is AGREEING with "all, or ANY of the goings on of such a gathering. Which comes as a shock to some people, as "bad things STILL "happen" to good people.

If people were (how can I say) "hot house lilies", and all the same? I'd agree with such strategy. But, they're not. Leastwise, I'm not!
and, from the "lack of traction?" I don't think I'm the only one.

Just go on and "cut to the chase", so to speak.

There's no such thing as a believer in the Greek NT, only in the English versions.

Traction not required, if it were the wide path would be the place to be. With those who think believing will result in recieving the Spirit of Christ.

 

[Karraster]

Reminds me of "shema" (Israel), which means much more than "hear". When my parents asked me "Do you hear me?" even as a child I knew that "hear" meant "obey".

was thinking of "...can two walk together unless they are agreed?..." (Amos 3)..and just before He says ... “You only have I known of all the families of the earth;...Does that not mean in covenant? I think so, and not only that, but anyone who has a part with Messiah must be "in covenant" with Him. That means not only believing He exists, but also doing what He says. That is my opinion.
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Knowing/knew means covenant)

sorry for being off topic, but after reading the thread I really didn't know how else to jump in.