Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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Thank you,
and discussions are processes of two people sharing information and usually two people learning. If that process offends you try to see it as friendlier, even the parts that seem challenging.
So back to every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. If Jesus gave the commandments/Law to Moses, and they are referred to as Torah, which means instructions, and then; if Jesus again spoke instructions in Matthew, Mark, Luke etc then technically, Yes, they are instructions/Torah
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Which means that the Torah IS NOT just the law in your view and when you say Torah you don't mean law, you actually mean the WHOLE bible. Which is exactly what the verse said: Thy word (the bible) is a lamp unto my feet.
Most people don't see it that way. Most people see the Torah as the law. The being Torah being only part of "Thy Word".
Most people don't see it that way. Most people see the Torah as the law. The being Torah being only part of "Thy Word".
I think you are right, but if there is any instruction to be had it's Torah, and as Paul said, of course referring to strictly what was available at the time which was the OT;
2Ti 3:16-17 KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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I think you are right, but if there is any instruction to be had it's Torah, and as Paul said, of course referring to strictly what was available at the time which was the OT;
2Ti 3:16-17 KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2Ti 3:16-17 KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
In your view, is the law the oil in the lamp or is the law the lamp.
The "ten virgins" [or even the "five"] are not depicting "the Church which is His body" (nor "the marriage" itself, but "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [i.e. the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth [Lk12:36-37,38,40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal!])
That is what Peter meant when he said the unlearned and unstable wrestle as they also do the other scriptures.
The law is NOT the oil in the lamp.
The Holy Spirit is the oil in the lamp.
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Working at the law in your own understanding and strength is The Yoke of Bondage. As many who do are under the curse.
If the law is light and the commandment is a lamp then the only possibility for the fuel of this lamp and this light is the Holy Spirit.
Which Paul explains over and over and Peter does too. But a worker at the law doesn't want to hear it. All they want and know is the Yoke of Bondage.
What is Peters solution for NOT following the Error of the wicked?
To Grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
What does Paul say about the Error of the Lawless?
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
The law is NOT the oil in the lamp.
The Holy Spirit is the oil in the lamp.
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Working at the law in your own understanding and strength is The Yoke of Bondage. As many who do are under the curse.
If the law is light and the commandment is a lamp then the only possibility for the fuel of this lamp and this light is the Holy Spirit.
Which Paul explains over and over and Peter does too. But a worker at the law doesn't want to hear it. All they want and know is the Yoke of Bondage.
What is Peters solution for NOT following the Error of the wicked?
To Grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
What does Paul say about the Error of the Lawless?
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
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Good question,
So let me work this out.
Pro 6:23 KJV For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
or NIV
Pro 6:23 NIV For these commands are a lamp, this teaching (Torah) is a light, and the corrections of discipline are the way to life,
Looks like the Torah is the Light
In the next verse;
Pro 21:20 KJV There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up.
Pro 8:33 KJV Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Pro 10:8 KJV The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.
So to receive instruction or Torah is wise and there is oil in the dwelling of the wise.
First thoughts are that the Torah or instructions of the Lord are the oil.
What do you think?
Deuteronomy 6: 13. You shall fear the Lord your God; and you shall serve him, and shall swear by his name.
This is a positive commandment, you shall swear by his name.
Today we do not have God's name available to us. We have four letters, yhwh. But this is not God's name any more than dnl is my name.
The New testament writers never wrote God's name, not even when quoting the old testament where the name appears.
This looks to me like another example of something which is for us today
out of reach.
This is a positive commandment, you shall swear by his name.
Today we do not have God's name available to us. We have four letters, yhwh. But this is not God's name any more than dnl is my name.
The New testament writers never wrote God's name, not even when quoting the old testament where the name appears.
This looks to me like another example of something which is for us today
out of reach.
Error of the Lawless/Wicked;
Romans 9:31-32
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Solution to the error of the lawless/wicked;
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Why do those who follow after the error of the lawless wrestle with Paul and distort the rest of scripture?
2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
Which vail is done away in Christ. Grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of Christ. Come to Christ and recieve Rest.
Stand fast in the Liberty where Christ has set us Free and be not entangled again in the Yoke of Bondage.
Why do you tempt God trying to put a yoke on the Brethren that neither we nor the fathers were able to bear?
More error of the lawless;
1 Timothy 1:6-7
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
I suppose if they didn't wrestle with Paul and distort and twist the scriptures they would just stop swerving and stop their vain jangling. That doesn't seem too close to happening.
Romans 9:31-32
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Solution to the error of the lawless/wicked;
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Why do those who follow after the error of the lawless wrestle with Paul and distort the rest of scripture?
2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
Which vail is done away in Christ. Grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of Christ. Come to Christ and recieve Rest.
Stand fast in the Liberty where Christ has set us Free and be not entangled again in the Yoke of Bondage.
Why do you tempt God trying to put a yoke on the Brethren that neither we nor the fathers were able to bear?
More error of the lawless;
1 Timothy 1:6-7
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
I suppose if they didn't wrestle with Paul and distort and twist the scriptures they would just stop swerving and stop their vain jangling. That doesn't seem too close to happening.
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I just copy and pasted from Christian Truth cause it just seemed so much easier and it will be nice to have it at my fingertips to answer your question. Just a couple changes for the sake of our conversations
differences are;
differences are;
- The old covenant came by Moses while the new covenant came by Jesus Christ (John 1:17)
- The old covenant leads to death (kills) while the new covenant gives life (2 Cor 3:6)
- The old covenant was ended by Jesus Christ (Roman 10:4) while the new covenant was established by Jesus Christ (Heb 8:6)
- The old covenant enslaves (Gal 5:1)while the new covenant makes man free (gives freedom) (John 8:32. 36)
- The old covenant leaves man imperfect while the new covenant leaves man perfect (Heb 7:19)
- The old covenant exposes sin (Gal 3:19) while the new covenant covers sin (Rom. 4:1-8)
- The old covenant cannot give life (2 cor 3.7) while the new covenant gives life (Gal. 3:11, 6:8)
- The old covenant was abolished while the new covenant is in force (Eph:2:15)
- The old covenant brings a curse (Gal. 3:10) while the new covenant redeems from curse (Gal. 3:13)
- In the old covenant, living is by works while in the new covenant living is by faith (Gal. 3:10-11)
Before you accuse me of NOT LIVING by faith because I am a "doer" and not a "rester" I will say it first, I do accept the Gift of Grace from God and do not "LIVE" by works, I follow the law and do works because of how FAITH changed my "inner man" and I feel the need to go out and do good works, and teach the Word and I can not do that without the whole book. BUT never do I forget the GIFTS GOD GAVE ME AT THE START OF MY WALK WITH THE LORD.
- The old covenant is a shadow (Col. 2:14-17) while the new covenant is the reality (Heb. 10:1-18)
- The old covenant is a covered glory while the new covenant is glory uncovered (2 Cor. 3:13)
- The old covenant had many high priests (Heb. 7:23) while the new covenant has only one high priest (Jesus Christ) (Heb. 7:24-28)
- The old covenant had earthly priest (Heb. 5:1-4) while the new covenant has heavenly priest (Heb. 9:24, 10:12)
- The old covenant makes priest by law while the new covenant makes priests by oath (Heb 7:12,28)
- The old covenant had earthly tabernacle (Heb. 9:2) while the new covenant has heavenly tabernacle (Heb. 8:2)
- In The old covenant priesthood was in the lineage of Aaron (Aaron priest hood) while the new covenant priesthood is in the melchisedec lineage (melchisedec priesthood) (Heb 7:11,21)
- In the old covenant priests (high priest) were sinners (Heb. 5:1-4) while in the new covenant the priest has no sin (Jesus Christ) (Heb. 7:26)
- The old covenant was fulfilled (Mat. 5:17-18) while the new covenant is now in force (Heb. 8:6, 10:9)
- In the old, the law was written in stone tablets while in the new covenant, the law is written in people hearts (Jeremiah 31:33)
- In the old, the Ark of covenant was present as a sign of salvation while in the new covenant IS SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
- The old covenant demanded works (doing) while the new covenant only demands obedience
I DO NOT WORK UNDER ANY DEMAND , I WORK UNDER LOVE AND NOT FOR A REWARD. I AM OBEDIENT TO THE WORD. - In the old, Moses and prophets were mediators while in the new covenant, Jesus Christ is the mediator
- The old covenant is a covenant of letter while the new covenant is a covenant of spirit
- The old covenant needed offering for sin while in the new covenant, Jesus is the perfect sin offering
- The old covenant needed statues and ordinances while the new covenant only needs ones heart
- In the old covenant, the tabernacle was made with hands while in the new covenant the tabernacle is made without hands
- In the old covenant, atoning for sin was done yearly, while in the new covenant repentance and forgiveness always
- The old covenant remembers sin (Heb. 10:3) while the new covenant does not remember sin (Heb. 8:12, 10:17)
- The old covenant is a ministry of death while the new covenant is a ministry of life (2 Cor 3:6-7)
- The old covenant was written with ink while the new covenant is written with the spirit of God (2 Cor 3:3)
- The old covenant is for Israelites only (Det 4: 7-8) while the new covenant is for all men (Luke 22:20)
On the other hand Grandpa?
You are saying "spiritually sacrificing/s" of one's self is a gift? That the "pressing on" to the "High Calling of God?" Is a gift of Grace? Or, "works?"
Salvation? Or Priesthood?
Is one saved more then the other?
No!
Longer?
Yes!
One is saved from the 2nd death! (eternal)
The other may be saved from the 2nd death. (everlasting)
Grace? Or "works?"
The answer to this, is BOTH!
Meaning? Grace will GET one TO the "age to come!"
ALL BETS ARE OFF, when satan gets released, after the 1,000 years, for the "gracers!" (everlasting)
Priests, are NOT in danger! (eternal)
Grace? Or "works?"
You are saying "spiritually sacrificing/s" of one's self is a gift? That the "pressing on" to the "High Calling of God?" Is a gift of Grace? Or, "works?"
Salvation? Or Priesthood?
Is one saved more then the other?
No!
Longer?
Yes!
One is saved from the 2nd death! (eternal)
The other may be saved from the 2nd death. (everlasting)
Grace? Or "works?"
The answer to this, is BOTH!
Meaning? Grace will GET one TO the "age to come!"
ALL BETS ARE OFF, when satan gets released, after the 1,000 years, for the "gracers!" (everlasting)
Priests, are NOT in danger! (eternal)
Grace? Or "works?"
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Very true.
This is also the point being made in the Matthew 22:7 [70ad events] and v.8 [AFTER the 70ad events], where v.8 says, "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" (necessarily referring to that which was given to be recorded AFTER the v.7-70ad events [Jesus had long been in Heaven at that point] (and this is what we see in the LATER 95ad "[The] Revelation," where verse 1 is essentially saying the exact thing!)
2 Peter 3:16 -
"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other [G3062 - loipas - 'rest' / 'remaining' (plural)] scriptures, unto their own destruction."
What does Peter mean by the phrase "the REST [of]/ REMAINING Scriptures"...(in the context of speaking of Paul's writings/epistles/letters, some of which are "hard-to-be-understood")... ? Why not just say, "as they do also 'the Scriptures'"?
This is also the point being made in the Matthew 22:7 [70ad events] and v.8 [AFTER the 70ad events], where v.8 says, "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" (necessarily referring to that which was given to be recorded AFTER the v.7-70ad events [Jesus had long been in Heaven at that point] (and this is what we see in the LATER 95ad "[The] Revelation," where verse 1 is essentially saying the exact thing!)
2 Peter 3:16 -
"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other [G3062 - loipas - 'rest' / 'remaining' (plural)] scriptures, unto their own destruction."
What does Peter mean by the phrase "the REST [of]/ REMAINING Scriptures"...(in the context of speaking of Paul's writings/epistles/letters, some of which are "hard-to-be-understood")... ? Why not just say, "as they do also 'the Scriptures'"?
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Does the Holy Spirit cause us to turn to working real hard at our understanding of the law?
Or does the Holy Spirit cause us to turn to the Lord Jesus Christ?
Super easy lob there that should be hit out of the park.
The Old Covenant had Law.
The New Covenant has Christ.
Which one is better?
Or does the Holy Spirit cause us to turn to the Lord Jesus Christ?
Super easy lob there that should be hit out of the park.
The Old Covenant had Law.
The New Covenant has Christ.
Which one is better?
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