Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[SimpleGardner]

Amen

Jesus fulfilled the Law. Even to the point of death (fulfilling the sacrificial law)

And not one jot or tittle will go away, as long as their are non believers on earth, the law still needs to bring people to the point of being “poor in spirit”

Hey EG,

What you said here is spot on. But, even after that Jesus did say that heaven and earth would pass away first. Now, I am not one to say he was speaking of something else in a spiritual sense, but I have not arrived at that yet so for now I equate it to a physical Heaven and Earth, which may always exist. Hence the Law will always exist. Even the angels still have free will to sin. So if the law is ever done away no act would/could be deemed unlawful. Unless, we enter ans age where there simply is no sin. Can you find scripture to support that?

 

[SimpleGardner]

That makes sense, i think they use your own time when time stamping, it is better to use post number,

Anyway,

How does the moral law work in making us christ like?

That is my question. This post does not explain this, This just says all scripture is god breathed, we agree with that.

There are many parts of scripture. Many parts which have different functions in our sanctification. What part does the moral law have?

Ahhh, Post numbers, I see them now. Kinda new at this. Again my apologies for the confusion. And thanks for your patience!

 

[SimpleGardner]

That makes sense, i think they use your own time when time stamping, it is better to use post number,

Anyway,

How does the moral law work in making us christ like?

That is my question. This post does not explain this, This just says all scripture is god breathed, we agree with that.

There are many parts of scripture. Many parts which have different functions in our sanctification. What part does the moral law have?

Same answer...it doesn't actually work the change within us, The Holy Spirit does and as we receive a new heart and then look at the Moral Law we find a beauty in it. Like the Tabernacle does for us, the moral law is awe inspiring. That revelation and new love for the law and then our choice to know it fully and of course keep it brings us into Christs Righteousness or a Renewed Righteousness. Not that we personally ever had it, but it existed in Adam and Jesus. The renewed thought is that Our Heavenly Father will have achieved a reversal of the fall by lifting His elect once again to righteousness, beyond that the rest of the world will have an opportunity after tribulation opens their eyes to choose life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey EG,

What you said here is spot on. But, even after that Jesus did say that heaven and earth would pass away first. Now, I am not one to say he was speaking of something else in a spiritual sense, but I have not arrived at that yet so for now I equate it to a physical Heaven and Earth, which may always exist. Hence the Law will always exist. Even the angels still have free will to sin. So if the law is ever done away no act would/could be deemed unlawful. Unless, we enter ans age where there simply is no sin. Can you find scripture to support that?

You missed my point

As long as people need to come to christ, the schoolmaster (law) will still be in effect.

Scripture says there are two ways to heaven

1. Works - Law
2. Grace - Christ

Christ did not put away number 1. He just offered number 2.

When heaven and earth pass away, there will be no more last people which need christ, so the law will no longer be needed, Hence THEN it (usefulness) will pass away.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Same answer...it doesn't actually work the change within us, The Holy Spirit does and as we receive a new heart and then look at the Moral Law we find a beauty in it. Like the Tabernacle does for us, the moral law is awe inspiring. That revelation and new love for the law and then our choice to know it fully and of course keep it brings us into Christs Righteousness or a Renewed Righteousness. Not that we personally ever had it, but it existed in Adam and Jesus. The renewed thought is that Our Heavenly Father will have achieved a reversal of the fall by lifting His elect once again to righteousness, beyond that the rest of the world will have an opportunity after tribulation opens their eyes to choose life.

Hmm, I do not see this

I do nto think of Gods moral law. What good would it do? All it can do is condemn me, because even now. I can not keep it. (Anyone who thinks they can or have, have some issues) instead I look to Christ, I look to God, I look to all those around me, And seek after the things of the spirit. That is my hope. And my blessing.

As paul said, when the law wakes up. I am dead. Because the law condemns me (that was its purpose)

The sacrificail system did nto condemn me it can’t and it never could. So I can see it with joy. As with other things, but the moral law? That can ONLY curse me. I can find no joy in it, I find only condemnation.

 

[NayborBear]

You will have to forgive me, But that person and I have had many conversations for years. So I am treating him accordingly. Because at this point I know what he believes, and his insistence to keep pushing me and try to discredit me will be met with apt responses.

Not all are called EG! Even fewer, are chosen!
My major complaint is not with you! Per se!
It IS against posts you write teaching it is OK, to be called, and FERGIT about the "being chosen" part! Because being called is "GOOD ENOUGH!" Therefore? "GOOD ENOUGH" for EVERYONE! Likening it as "works FOR, and/or MAINTAINING Salvation! Of the which? You really don't know what I believe at all! I've TRIED, in giving you meat, and keep getting it spit back at me. So?

I have long since stopped trying in the persuading of you. And, have gone onwards with my testimonies, so that other believer's, who have "that CERTAIN unction", that DRIVES them to "PRESS ON", to the "High(er) CALLING of GOD, in Christ? May SEE that they indeed are not alone! Albeit, in a small minority, in comparison with the "many" who are "called!" So as not to become dismayed, nor disappointed, nor DISSUADED, NOR DECEIVED! BY ANY MAN! THAT INCLUDES MYSELF!

Seeings how in this forum, there are many believers, from NO faith, to GOBS of faith? The inadvertent "stepping on toes", occurs!

It's NOT WRONG to be called! It also, is NOT WRONG to be chosen!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not all are called EG! Even fewer, are chosen!
My major complaint is not with you! Per se!
It IS against posts you write teaching it is OK, to be called, and FERGIT about the "being chosen" part! Because being called is "GOOD ENOUGH!" Therefore? "GOOD ENOUGH" for EVERYONE! Likening it as "works FOR, and/or MAINTAINING Salvation! Of the which? You really don't know what I believe at all! I've TRIED, in giving you meat, and keep getting it spit back at me. So?

This aught to be good. Let me get my popcorn out while you prove this accusation, Name one place where I have made this point, or declaired what you just accused me off.

I will be waiting patiently.

I have long since stopped trying in the persuading of you. And, have gone onwards with my testimonies, so that other believer's, who have "that CERTAIN unction", that DRIVES them to "PRESS ON", to the "High(er) CALLING of GOD, in Christ? May SEE that they indeed are not alone! Albeit, in a small minority, in comparison with the "many" who are "called!" So as not to become dismayed, nor disappointed, nor DISSUADED, NOR DECEIVED! BY ANY MAN! THAT INCLUDES MYSELF!

You just proved once again you have utterly no idea what I believe, so how are you going to convince or pursuade me I am wrong?

New flash, You have to KNOW what a person teaches in order to get any idea if what they teach is wrong first.. Saying they are wrong based on false assumptions just makes you look bad.

Seeings how in this forum, there are many believers, from NO faith, to GOBS of faith? The inadvertent "stepping on toes", occurs!

It's NOT WRONG to be called! It also, is NOT WRONG to be chosen!

Yes, And I have ALWAYS taught we are not only Called. But we are chosen (based on foreknowledge)

The fact you claim I do not just PROVES you have no idea what I believe.

Now are you willing to confess your sin? In the meantime, I am eating my popcorn in the midst of my laughing while waiting for you to back up your silly accusations.

 

[SimpleGardner]

You missed my point

As long as people need to come to christ, the schoolmaster (law) will still be in effect.

Scripture says there are two ways to heaven

1. Works - Law
2. Grace - Christ

Christ did not put away number 1. He just offered number 2.

When heaven and earth pass away, there will be no more last people which need christ, so the law will no longer be needed, Hence THEN it (usefulness) will pass away.

Well, If you are saying when/if Heaven and Earth pass away then yeah, I would presume there will be no people, so who needs the law. But if the Angels have free will do they need the law?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, If you are saying when/if Heaven and Earth pass away then yeah, I would presume there will be no people, so who needs the law. But if the Angels have free will do they need the law?

Are the angels lost? Do they need to learn and understand how sinful they are, so they can become bankrupt (poor) in spirit to enter the kingdom of God?

The law was NEVER given to help a soul become righteous (and no I am not talking about salvation here, I am talking in this context about becoming Christlike, or another term, sanctified) So how could it be of any use to angels? Other than to show Gods mercy and love, but this happened when Christ died. As paul said, the angels looked with fascination and was held in awe..

Anyway, again, what use does the moral law have to any angel today?

 

[SimpleGardner]

Hmm, I do not see this

I do nto think of Gods moral law. What good would it do? All it can do is condemn me, because even now. I can not keep it. (Anyone who thinks they can or have, have some issues) instead I look to Christ, I look to God, I look to all those around me, And seek after the things of the spirit. That is my hope. And my blessing.

As paul said, when the law wakes up. I am dead. Because the law condemns me (that was its purpose)

The sacrificail system did nto condemn me it can’t and it never could. So I can see it with joy. As with other things, but the moral law? That can ONLY curse me. I can find no joy in it, I find only condemnation.

EG,

Let me ask you a question; Would you say you have been anointed with the Holy Spirit?

With all due respect...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG,

Let me ask you a question; Would you say you have been anointed with the Holy Spirit?

With all due respect...

I was baptized with the spirit which washed my sins away, and made me alive in Christ (regeneration) and placed me into Christ

Then I was anointed with the spirit, where I also was sealed by that same spirit.

But once again, What does this have to do with what the moral law has any use in my life today?

 

[SimpleGardner]

This aught to be good. Let me get my popcorn out while you prove this accusation, Name one place where I have made this point, or declaired what you just accused me off.

I will be waiting patiently.


You just proved once again you have utterly no idea what I believe, so how are you going to convince or pursuade me I am wrong?

New flash, You have to KNOW what a person teaches in order to get any idea if what they teach is wrong first.. Saying they are wrong based on false assumptions just makes you look bad.




Yes, And I have ALWAYS taught we are not only Called. But we are chosen (based on foreknowledge)

The fact you claim I do not just PROVES you have no idea what I believe.

Now are you willing to confess your sin? In the meantime, I am eating my popcorn in the midst of my laughing while waiting for you to back up your silly accusations.

Hey EG,

Do you agree or disagree with "predestination"?

Some use the term Calvanism.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I was baptized with the spirit which washed my sins away, and made me alive in Christ (regeneration) and placed me into Christ

Then I was anointed with the spirit, where I also was sealed by that same spirit.

But once again, What does this have to do with what the moral law has any use in my life today?

Hey EG,

Probably more that either of us can say or hear under our current circumstances. But we can find other things to discuss. And I think that is best for now. You pray and I will pray for our Heavenly Father to guide us into unity around His truth. You open to that?

Sincerely, Bless YHWH!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey EG,

Do you agree or disagree with "predestination"?

Some use the term Calvanism.

Calvinism is one view on predestination.

Calvinism teaches literally double predestination. (Destined to heaven or hell)

The bible teaches predestination. So Yes, I believe it, However, I believe we are chosen based on Gods foreknowledge. As scripture says. God did not remove free will choices. He chose based on his knowledge of those choices.

Our salvation was predetermined before time began.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey EG,

Probably more that either of us can say or hear under our current circumstances. But we can find other things to discuss. And I think that is best for now. You pray and I will pray for our Heavenly Father to guide us into unity around His truth. You open to that?

Sincerely, Bless YHWH!

YHWH? Hebrew roots?

As long as you do me a favor. Do not do as you have done a few times now and say people do not see because they ask the wrong questions. Or do not answer,

I still do not understand why you will not answer my questions.. But thats fine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The moral law says do not commit adultery

How many people here do not know that if you look at a woman with lust and are married, Or if you divorce and remarry, under the law you are guilty of this sin. (The spirit of the law))

And if you already know this, can you explain to me why focusing on this law will help you become sanctified, christ like, Perfected in christ, or righteous? Or focusing on any and all of the moral law will help you do this?

Because there are some who seem to claim the HS uses the moral law to help us become these things. And I can not comprehend why.

 

[SimpleGardner]

YHWH? Hebrew roots?

As long as you do me a favor. Do not do as you have done a few times now and say people do not see because they ask the wrong questions. Or do not answer,

I still do not understand why you will not answer my questions.. But thats fine.

I am always trying to temper my words with love. Passion can elevate a mans tone as you know.

Bush hoggin today, picking corn and beans etc!

Amasing isnt it?:

God gives warmth/sunshine
Water
Soil
Seed
Each and every one of which are miracles!

And all we do is scratch the dirt, drop the seed and viola!

We couldn't even do what we do if we didn't have the mind he gave us!

Talk Later

 

[SimpleGardner]

Calvinism is one view on predestination.

Calvinism teaches literally double predestination. (Destined to heaven or hell)

The bible teaches predestination. So Yes, I believe it, However, I believe we are chosen based on Gods foreknowledge. As scripture says. God did not remove free will choices. He chose based on his knowledge of those choices.

Our salvation was predetermined before time began.

Interesting concept to get ones head around.

On one side I recognize the logic on the other I question it.

There are factors that many people have not yet come to know and understand, self included, that weigh in on these matters that change everything. Hows that for a teaser.

Thanks for the answer...I appreciate your openness.

 

[Grandpa]

We are to abide by the "Spirit" of the Law, not the letter. Do you remember when Jesus was being tested? He took what was the "letter" and brought back to the Spirit of the Law, what was originally intended by the law to separate the holy from the profane.

There are those with the law, There are those without the law, There is no in between. When I use the term "law" it is the spirit of the law and what that tells me. I don't even believe I know anyone who owns oxen. Yet when I read what can happen with those who do, the Spirit of the law shines through. I believe God gives us the wisdom and knowledge or shall I say Common Sense with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That is how we discern who has the Spirit in them, and who needs to go by the letter.

The debate of no longer "under". I was underneath the tree. I walked away. Tree still there. I am no longer under it. The holy Spirit opens my eyes to how this transfers and I can not make someone understand. Cool. But I will keep on and on and on as long as the "other" side does putting out the truth for those who are learning. I don't expect those who have not "seen" it to.

Law or Lawless. Jesus said not one jot or tittle.....It is not a burden, I am not under it, It does not save me, It doesn't make me righteous etc... before God, AND yet with all that , I still look to it for guidance. I like knowing there is a right and a wrong. I can not figure out how Good and Evil are separated without it. The only one I see in the work of getting rid of the law is satan .

Good fig, Bad fig. Good, Evil, A house divided, bitter and sweet water..... Jesus can not be separated from the law any more that He can be separated from God. Why ANYONE would believe that because Jesus walked the perfect live and died as a payment for our sins means no more law is beyond me.

The Lord Jesus Christ has Said So.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

The Lord Jesus has given us rest from our work at the law. Those who have come to Him.

Paul expounds;

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Why would someone who has come to Christ refuse to be instructed from scripture and from the Holy Spirit and call those who would show them Christ and Scripture a work of satan?

The only reason is that they are confused in their minds. The vail must still be firmly in place.

Matthew 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

If you look closely at these two verses you will see that EITHER every jot and every tittle of the law are firmly in place OR ALL HAS BEEN FULFILLED.

The Lord Jesus has said He came to fulfill. So did He fail? In order to argue that you are still to work at the law and every jot and tittle is still in place then you MUST, by the Lords statement, believe that the Lord failed.

If that is not a mockery of Christianity I don't know what is. No wonder you would believe He is Powerless and cannot give you rest from your work at the law.


How can you possibly say that you are under some imaginative "spirit" of the law when this verse says Not ONE jot or tittle shall pass? You know that jots and tittles are punctuation in writing, right?

The Lord doesn't leave middle ground here. He doesn't say go ahead and follow some of the law. Either you are under ALL of the Law or you believe in Jesus and ALL HAS BEEN FULFILLED.

Did the Lord ever say He was going to fulfill some of the law? Did the Lord ever say He was going to place anyone under the "spirit of the law" like you say? No. These are made up things in a legalists mind. SO that they can THINK they are following the law.

 

[Grandpa]

The Word, God's commandments and statutes in the the heart and mouth through Christ is the Faith in which we preach Paul said. Israel did not have this faith. The majority refused it and were only trying to follow the letter of the law and not allowing it in the heart.

For Christ (the word, the law in the heart, mind and mouth) is the end of the law (written on tebles of stone and parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth.

You keep posting the same thing over and over and all it shows is that you don't understand what the scripture says.

You are trying to equate the Lord Jesus Christ with the 10 commandments. You are trying to twist those who work at the letter of the law as somehow different than those who have the 10 commandments written on their hearts.

The Lord Jesus is not the 10 commandments. The Lord Jesus gives us Rest from our work at the 10 commandments.

I done nothing of the sort. You must of forgot. We were in Romans. Here...
So once again in respects to Romans 10:4 Why rip that text out of the context it was written?
Start in 9:30 to let say verse 8 in chapter 10.

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (word) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 9:30-10:8 KJV)

!0:6-8 is a paraphrase of the words spoken in prophecy to Israel and now again to Israel and throughout the whole world.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 KJV)
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

The Word, God's commandments and statutes in the the heart and mouth through Christ is the Faith in which we preach Paul said. Israel did not have this faith. The majority refused it and were only trying to follow the letter of the law and not allowing it in the heart.

For Christ (the word, the law in the heart, mind and mouth) is the end of the law (written on tebles of stone and parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:1-5
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Legalists and Judaizers, such as yourself, have a zeal of God but NOT according to knowledge. They are ignorant of actual Righteousness and are going about attempting to establish their own righteousness by their performance at the law.

But Christ is the end of the Law for Righteousness. For everyone that believes. Those who believe do not go about establishing their own righteousness by the law. They profess their Righteousness by what they are given freely, by Grace.

Galatians 2:19-21
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Paul further explains that we are dead to the law so that we might live unto God.

This means that if you are attempting to follow the law then you aren't living to God. You are still attempting to establish your own righteousness and you are not submitting to the Righteousness of God.

If a person has come to Christ they know that the law can impart no righteousness to them. For those who have not come to Christ they think that their is still instruction in Righteousness that the law can impart.

So you either Frustrate the Grace of God and still attempt to work at the law or you come to Christ and receive rest from your work at the law.