Not By Works

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M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,581
Dec 27, 2018
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#96,581
UnderGrace said:
I do not see the analogy here. Inspecting fruit and defining sin two different principles.
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Quoting a general principle that came from Jesus is not fruit inspecting. DID it cause you to inspect your own fruit. Is that why you responded in this manner
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#96,582
Nov 24, 2013
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#96,582
eternally-gratefull said:
James spoke all over in the first two chapters about testing yourself your faith your patience etc etc

He was telling the individuals to test their own faith

Was it real or was it just a claimed faith

If I say I have faith but I am a heater not a doer (works) . I better be open to the fact I probably never had faith and need to challenge my pride and repent before its too late

Does God need proof before he saves someone fully?
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Was the issue ever that God needed proof before He saves someone fully? If so then I totally missed the intent of the posts.

What exactly do you mean save someone fully? Not trying to put you on the spot, but this IMO, is a curious statement.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,583
Dec 27, 2018
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#96,583
Budman said:
It has nothing to do with desperation. It has everything to do with projection. You said the statement applies to everyone. That, naturally, applies to individuals. So you are indeed a fruit inspector.

So, keep wigglin' :sneaky:
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Don't you know what inspect means? Obviously not

Whose fruit have I EXAMINED in order to assess it's quality or quantity? You do not examine and assess a person's fruit by stating a general principle. What kind of person talks in this manner?

Wow, the lengths people will go to to defend an outright lie.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#96,585
Nov 24, 2013
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#96,585
Macabeus said:
So then I cannot say any negative scriptural principle at all that applies to individuals.

a. I cannot say that no one can be saved unless they believe in Jesus,

b. I cannot say that if anyone does not repent, they shall perish,

c. I cannot say all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

The only explanation for your posts is that you are a troll.
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Yes, you can. Budman is being hard headed which I have yet to see as a fruit of Holy Spirit.

And yes, that's my opinion. Not judgement. I don't have that right to judge.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,586
Dec 27, 2018
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#96,586
UnderGrace said:
A scriptural principle will have individual application otherwise it serves no purpose and therefore not a principle.
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But inspecting fruit of another would be examining another persons fruit to give an assessment of it. Who have I done that to? No one. Therefore, you are lying and defending a lie.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,587
Dec 27, 2018
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#96,587
stonesoffire said:
Yes, you can. Budman is being hard headed which I have yet to see as a fruit of Holy Spirit.
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Saying that any scriptural principle that applies to individuals is fruit inspecting not only destroys the meaning of the word INSPECTOR, it also subverts the command to rebuke, reprove, exhort, etc. These guys are inadvertantly trying to subvert Christianity.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#96,588
May 23, 2016
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#96,588
Macabeus said:
Everyone who is believing HAS BEEN born of God.
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Now you got it! Exactly!

But on post #96455 you said:
"1 John 5:1. A person who has been born of God (perfect tense) believes (present tense)"

That is turned around and not the same statement as you made on post 96510!
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,589
Dec 27, 2018
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#96,589
Chester said:
Now you got it! Exactly!

But on post #96455 you said:
"1 John 5:1. A person who has been born of God (perfect tense) believes (present tense)"

That is turned around and not the same statement as you made on post 96510!
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Yes, everyone who is believing has been born of God. I believe because I have been born of God.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#96,590
May 23, 2016
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#96,590
Budman said:
If you sin every day (which you do) that is the very definition of habitual and willful.
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Hey, here is a man (Chester) who does not habitually and willfully sin every day.

Yes, I do occasionally sin willfully and habitually, and if you count all the sins of omission and neglect I suppose you could say I sin every day.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,591
Dec 27, 2018
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#96,591
Budman said:
Every time you sin you make the choice to do so.

Period.
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I didn't think you were so confused that I would have to explain this to you.

But if I lose my temper and say a careless word one day.

...and help someone with an impure motive the next day.

...and commit a sin of omission one day

...in other words fail to live up to perfection, being an imperfect human being...

...and I confess my sins to God...and repent of them

is not the same as habitually lying, fornicating, murdering, cheating on my taxes, etc habitually and unrepentably.

If we conflate these two categories, we're all going to hell, because the unrighteousness shall not inherit the Kingdom, And Paul listed a list of sins and said such WERE some of you.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#96,592
May 23, 2016
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#96,592
Macabeus said:
Yes, everyone who is believing has been born of God. I believe because I have been born of God.
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LOL! You are funny! Your first statement is what the verse says (I John 5:1).

Your second statement is not what I John 5:1 says. It is a very different statement from the first statement. It may or may not be true, but it is not what I John 5:1 says!
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,593
Dec 27, 2018
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#96,593
Chester said:
Hey, here is a man (Chester) who does not habitually and willfully sin every day.

Yes, I do occasionally sin willfully and habitually, and if you count all the sins of omission and neglect I suppose you could say I sin every day.
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Exactly. He conflates imperfection in holiness, which is a condition of every human with habitual and willfull sin. The Bible clearly makes a distinction (compare 1 John 1:8-9 with 1 John 1:5 and 1 John 3:6, Budman.)

His theology seems to be based on his own thoughts rather than the scripture.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,594
Dec 27, 2018
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#96,594
Chester said:
LOL! You are funny! Your first statement is what the verse says (I John 5:1).

Your second statement is not what I John 5:1 says. It is a very different statement from the first statement. It may or may not be true, but it is not what I John 5:1 says!
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Would you have continuing faith if you had not been born of God. I know for a fact I would not. In fact, if not for God's initiating faith and repentance in me, I would never have believed or wanted to know God
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#96,595
May 23, 2016
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#96,595
Macabeus said:
Would you have continuing faith if you had not been born of God. I know for a fact I would not. In fact, if not for God's initiating faith and repentance in me, I would never have believed or wanted to know God
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Now there is the problem: You want the verse to read that the one who has been born out of God has continuing faith. But the verse does not say that.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,596
Dec 27, 2018
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#96,596
Chester said:
Now there is the problem: You want the verse to read that the one who has been born out of God has continuing faith. But the verse does not say that.
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What kind of faith does not continue?
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#96,597
Nov 24, 2013
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#96,597
Chester said:
Now there is the problem: You want the verse to read that the one who has been born out of God has continuing faith. But the verse does not say that.
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Chester, I think this may be a difference with translations. I read many different ones and I believe I saw the words continuing faith in one or more.

Will try to find.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#96,598
Nov 24, 2013
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#96,598
2 Corinthians 13:5 Keep examining yourselves to see whether you are continuing in the faith. Test yourselves! You know, don't you, that Jesus the Messiah lives in you? Could it be that you are failing the test
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,599
Dec 27, 2018
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#96,599
Chester...perhaps I mistinterpreted the Text in 1 John 5. I am not too proud to admit I may have made a mistake. But question...Does God's seed abide/remain in those who are born of Him? 1 John 3:9
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#96,600
May 23, 2016
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#96,600
Macabeus said:
What kind of faith does not continue?
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You may ask all the rhetorical questions you want - that is OK with me. I get my doctrine from what the text says, not from rhetorical questions! LOL! You are quite interesting and humorous if I dare say so!

but anyway - You asked me a question: What kind of faith does not continue? Well, maybe we should go to Scripture and see if the question is answered anywhere? Problem for me is I don't have time to do that right now. And I could give an answer to your question from my own personal ideas, but that does not really matter. What matters is what God says!
 
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