A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES
- Thread starter VCO
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kaylagrl
Guest
DC I did not mean YOU as in YOU in particular. If I meant you I'd say so. I meant YOU in general. If anyone read the NT they would not be confused about water baptism vs Holy Spirit baptism. Then I posted a few verses proving that point. If YOU are confused read the verses. I didn't think you were saying YOU were confused. I figured you were on the road long enough that you meant others might be confused. smh Never saw such a bunch of name calling nit pickers as the bunch in the BDF. And quit with the taunting calling me a liar. Just because you misunderstand doesn't make me a liar. Calm down and slow your roll. I treat you with respect,I'd appreciate the same.
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kaylagrl
Guest
Well we'll stick with the word "with". Baptized "with". Now no one will be confused and terrorized.
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kaylagrl
Guest
The you viciously Criticised my Study without even thoroughly reading it.
It is in Segment 2, 5th and 6th Paragraph. Paragraph 4 has part of the paragraph before and after the long list of Problems mention in the Corinthian Church is IN THE MIDDLE.
EVERY SINGLE EXAMPLE IN THE BIBLE WITH TONGUES SPEAKING, had Unbelieving Jews HEARING the Mighty Works of GOD. That includes Cornelius's house. The UNBELIEVING JEWS were the JEWISH BELIEVERS that came along with Peter. AT THAT TIME, they did not believe that GOD could save Gentiles, in the same way HE DID JEWS. Remember in the TEMPLE the Gentiles could not go any further into the TEMPLE than the Court of the GENTILES.
Notice the GENTILES has to stand behind that wall where the Mikvahs were lacated.
I am calm, the ONLY REASON that I do not want to debate this is study with YOU, this study was started in the early 80's, when my wife's sister's thought I led her astray, because she used to speaking in tongues, and then SHE HERSELF had the Holy Spirit convince it was all a COUNTERFEIT. Then I had several people want to DEBATE me via LETTERS, and then I got a computer in 1995, one at a time, I put it on three different WEBSITES, and HUNDRED's of people want to debate men. I have been CALLED VICIOUS NAMES because I Did a NON- Charismatic Understanding On Tongues. Even my sister-inlaws YELLED at me across the Dinner Table. I mean the VICIOUS ATTACKS ALWAYS CONTINUED, AND YOURS WAS NOT THE WORSE. I know EVERYTHING YOU WILL SAY want to say, I KNOW YOUR ARGUMENTS BY HEART, because I HAVE HEARD THEM ALL, OVER, and OVER, and OVER , and OVER again. I literally KNOW I have not heard any NEW ARGUMENT IN over 20 years. ALL TRYING TO CONVINCE ME THEY Have the REAL GIFT, and IT IS ONLY A COUNTERFEIT of what the APOSTLES DID. There is NOTHING TO DEBATE, because I believe 100%, the TRUE Gift of Tongues is way the Holy Spirit has had me write it. I am TIRED OF DISCUSSING TONGUES.
Great,well the Holy Spirit convinced me it is 100% true. She had it right in the first place. You should have let her be.
And you think I haven't been called every name in the book and know your argument by heart? smh If you can't separate yourself from the debate perhaps you need to stay out of it. You doing a study doesn't make you an expert. You have confirmation bias and anyone whose opinion differs makes you flip out. That ought to tell you something is wrong in your spirit.
There is no NEW argument!! It's the same point as it has been all these years. Tongues has not ceased.
That is blasphemy,pure and simple. But I'll leave that between you and God.
Again, confirmation bias. You believe you're right and no one should discuss it. If there is no debate in your mind why are you on a discussion forum? smh
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kaylagrl
Guest
I get them most always from Catholics and Charismatics ....hmmm
Well no bias in that statement...
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UnderGrace
Guest
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kaylagrl
Guest
The Bible talks about being baptized in/with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit fell and they spoke in tongues. Yes, anointed,baptized, the same thing. We're kind of splitting hairs. But I don't disagree with what you're saying. It's more a turn of phrase I think.
That is unsupportable. "Unbelieving", in context, means "don't believe in Jesus as Messiah."
Your view twists what it means to be "unbelieving" and makes it context-dependent. That's called "equivocation" and it is fallacious.
If you argue that tongues are for unbelievers, as you have, then unbelievers must mean "those who don't believe in Jesus as Messiah." Those Jews who heard the message and were saved in Acts 2 were those who made the transition from not believing to believing in Jesus as Messiah. They didn't transition from not believing to believing that Gentiles could be saved.
Anyway, as you have said several times, you don't want to debate... though you keep debating. I notice that you denigrate those who disagree with you, claiming that their arguments are heated, and yet I also notice that your post suggests a degree of exasperation, judging by the amount of all-caps text. Either your assertion that "heated arguments" are a sign of erroneous belief isn't sound after all... or you'll come up with a justification to excuse your heated arguments.
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UnderGrace
Guest
Statement of fact actually, where the "most" are from, the rest from former members of the Calvinist persuasion
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kaylagrl
Guest
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kaylagrl
Guest
That is unsupportable. "Unbelieving", in context, means "don't believe in Jesus as Messiah."
Your view twists what it means to be "unbelieving" and makes it context-dependent. That's called "equivocation" and it is fallacious.
If you argue that tongues are for unbelievers, as you have, then unbelievers must mean "those who don't believe in Jesus as Messiah." Those Jews who heard the message and were saved in Acts 2 were those who made the transition from not believing to believing in Jesus as Messiah. They didn't transition from not believing to believing that Gentiles could be saved.
Anyway, as you have said several times, you don't want to debate... though you keep debating. I notice that you denigrate those who disagree with you, claiming that their arguments are heated, and yet I also notice that your post suggests a degree of exasperation, judging by the amount of all-caps text. Either your assertion that "heated arguments" are a sign of erroneous belief isn't sound after all... or you'll come up with a justification to excuse your heated arguments.
Well brother we don't always agree but I admire your clear headed responses. You are direct without being nasty. I appreciate straight forward people who can agree to disagree. So even if we don't agree I appreciate you. But in this instance you're 100% correct. Well said.
Yes God's word tongues (God's interpretation) is given to all nations. This is when he was still bringing new prophecy, as the word of God.
Previously given to the Hebrew in the old testament . Some of them mocked the scriptures to show they did not believe in a God not seen. God with mocking lips (stammering) then brought his interpretation in respect to all the nations of the world . The faithless Jew as a sign against them as a metaphor their flesh used to representing unbelief (no faith ) of mankind. They as born again inward Jew according to the unseen Spirit were also used to represent new creatures of all the nations.
God is not served by the flesh as the clay he can form Christ in by a work of His faith.
If a person argue that tongues are for unbelievers then they have turned things upside down . Tongues is a "sign" that unbelievers who mock the word of God and not believe what it says. and chase after the oral traditions of men as their own private source of faith. And yet for all that they still have no faith by which they could believe God.
Prophecy, God's word spoken in all the languages of all the nations of the world is for those who are given the faith to make it possible to believe Him not seen. It is simply a sign of unbelief (no faith) in regard to any nation that seeks after a signs and wonders gospel in a hope it will confirm they are being filled with the Holy Spirit .
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UnderGrace
Guest
Well to be fair @VCO stated he did not want a debate, it is not the same as saying I will not debate.
That aside, he posted the information because several asked him to share it, we were just going to read it, that is why he said he did not want a debate he just wanted to share the information.
I think that if someone wants to share information that should be allowed, this is certainly not blasphemous material.
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kaylagrl
Guest
It is blasphemous if you are speaking against the Holy Spirit. To say tongues is either of satan or something the speaker is making up is speaking against the Holy Spirit.
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UnderGrace
Guest
That is unsupportable. "Unbelieving", in context, means "don't believe in Jesus as Messiah."
Your view twists what it means to be "unbelieving" and makes it context-dependent. That's called "equivocation" and it is fallacious.
If you argue that tongues are for unbelievers, as you have, then unbelievers must mean "those who don't believe in Jesus as Messiah." Those Jews who heard the message and were saved in Acts 2 were those who made the transition from not believing to believing in Jesus as Messiah. They didn't transition from not believing to believing that Gentiles could be saved.
Anyway, as you have said several times, you don't want to debate... though you keep debating. I notice that you denigrate those who disagree with you, claiming that their arguments are heated, and yet I also notice that your post suggests a degree of exasperation, judging by the amount of all-caps text. Either your assertion that "heated arguments" are a sign of erroneous belief isn't sound after all... or you'll come up with a justification to excuse your heated arguments.
How do yo see this then?
"Wherefore languages are for a SIGN, not to them that believe, but to them that believe NOT..." (I Cor. 14:22.)
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Sister. All you have to do is go to the law and look at the priest
The washing and anointing were 2 different events. Once these took place the Levite was a priest
The same happens to each and every one of us who are gods children. You are washed (baptized) then anointed. Once this is done we are saved and sealyou do not pray to get baptized by the spirit it happens the moment you say yes to God. It is part of the process of god saving you
All gifts no matter what they are are given after these events take place
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UnderGrace
Guest
I see what you mean, when we say "tongue" it is connected to a non earthly language which is not evidenced in scripture.
Also I did not see this in @VCO write up but, "unknown tongue" is an erroneous term "unknown tongue" is used but six times in the King James (I Cor. 14:2, 4, 13, 14, 19, & 27,) and in every instance, the word unknown is in italics, signifying that the original Greek manuscripts did not contain this or any such word. It was erroneously added by the translators and should be taken out.
The translators were making the point that these languages were "foreign" as in the people at the church of Corinth had a diverse population with languages that may not have been known.
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UnderGrace
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I neither think it against the Holy Spirit, nor something the speaker is making up.
I think it is apart from this, it is a phenomena of the brain, that is the ecstatic utterances.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
again, this is the Bible DISCUSSION forum...NOT the Bible dissertation forum
so picking sides and agreeing with someone does not mean they should preach or teach...this is not a preaching or teaching platform either
he was allowed to share information. he is just not allowed to tell people to go away or be quiet or else and neither is anyone else 'allowed' to say that. if someone is so intolerant, they might be in the wrong place
we know how discussions go around here...can get pretty heated...but it all goes to pieces when the person attacks start
I wish a mod would step in every time that happens and say something like 'cool your jets' or 'get off your high horse' or whatever
I really like the model that suspends someone who is really out of order from the thread without banning them from the forum
that works really well but I don't know how much trouble that is to do it. I've seen that work well in another forum...I don't use that forum anymore but that device is a good one. people think twice before thinking and talking like they are God's gift to the forum and the rest of us should shut up and listen
that behavior even excludes just common manners, never mind how Christians should behave
this tongues topic is not going away any time soon but telling people they are demonic or stupid or whatever is not the way to go