Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus tells us what kind of heart we have to have for him to live there.

Yep

A BANKRUPT heart

“Blessed are the poor (literally bankrupt) in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of God”

A bankrupt heart does not think he can earn salvation by his works. He realises he has NOTHING to offer. Like the tax collector. Who got on his knees unable to even look up. Asking God for mercy

That the heart God is looking for. That is the heart he will save, and the heart he can use. Because it will rely on him, KNOWING it has nothing

 

[UnderGrace]

These video's help make sense of not by works, to do the work of God... <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY0KXBviEFU>
I have been uplifted and encouraged. Controversial, this man is of the same background as you, quite interesting.

Wow really out there

 

[YourTruthGod]

Of course he said he went, Abraham had true faith

But thats not what saved him

Gen 15: 6, And ABRAHAM believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness

NO WORKS!!!!

Your argument is with God and Moses, Not me.

God tells us plainly that faith alone is dead.

Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; 4 So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

Yep it is. And my conscience is clear. Because I am not bearing false witness. You do exactly what I said. Whether you believe it or not is beside the point.

You claim you are saved by your works, and you have to earn it. Thus you reject the cross and Grace

You should be more careful what you say about others.
You are not telling the truth about me.

 

[BillG]

So you want to go against the Bible that says Abraham OBEYED AND WENT?

Is it not Abram believed and went/obeyed?

Genesis 12:1
The Call of Abram (12:1-9)
1 The Lord had said to Abram, “Leave your native country, your relatives, and your father’s family, and go to the land that I will show you.

All of a sudden this man is going about his business.
Then next thing he hears God (often wondered how this happened).
So to me he can't have obeyed unless he believed in God.

So was he considered righteous by obeying or believing?

If we look at the word for believe per the verse above it has the following meanings (Hebrew)

AV (108) - believe 44, assurance 1, faithful 20, sure 11, established 7, trust 5, verified 3, stedfast 2, continuance...

If we look at the word believe in the NT (pisteou, the verb form from the noun pistis)

It's in relation to the invisible God, as distinct from "faith" in man, are especially brought out in the use of this noun and the corresponding verb, pisteuo.

So the noun is Jesus, the verb is to believe, which ensues in a following action(s) (another verb) aka works as a result of being saved and not the other way around, works to be saved.

Many on judgement day will fall foul of the latter, because?

Belief, trust, intrust and commitment.

Commitment to be like Jesus as a result of faith.

Abram, you me and others are declared righteous by our faith and not by works.

God will not declare us righteous if we have no faith in Jesus and his death and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins which separates us from him.

If he could then our works could save us and not the death of Jesus for us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God tells us plainly that faith alone is dead.

Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; 4 So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

There is no such thing as faith alone. James tried to tell you that, Many people here have told you that. Continue to state this strawman which is not found in scripture to your own demise.

A CLAIMED faith is not a TRUE FAITH.

You should be more careful what you say about others.
You are not telling the truth about me.

I AM careful. God is my witness. You teaching works means you reject Grace.

The law demanded perfection. Anyone who did not meet that demand has fallen short of Gods glory (that would be you and I) and accordingn to the law you are under a curse.

The only way to remeove that curse is to have faith that God will remove that curse for you by givin gyou his righteousness, As he Gave abraham in Gen 15: 6. Which is ONLY by faith

You say this is not true, Which means you are against the word of God.

And PS. Your the one who started the mocking statment about how others do not understand The bible

If you can not handle the same argument used against you. Then stop judging others.

 

[BillG]

God tells us plainly that faith alone is dead

Jesus did not say that to thief on the cross.

If faith alone is dead then do we not have a problem?

If you have faith but do not follow it through then is it dead?
You go to church one day. Have arranged a meal out with the family after the service.
Know that others can't put food on the table but you still to out to the family meal.
Is your faith dead?

 

[YourTruthGod]

Yep

A BANKRUPT heart

Jesus tells us what kind of heart he lives in.

“Blessed are the poor (literally bankrupt) in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of God”

Poor in spirit is about being about being HUMBLE and contrite about your sins.

Isaiah 66:2 Has not My hand made all these things? And so they came into being, declares the LORD. This is the one I will esteem: he who is humble and contrite in spirit, who trembles at My word.

A bankrupt heart does not think he can earn salvation by his works. He realises he has NOTHING to offer. Like the tax collector. Who got on his knees unable to even look up. Asking God for mercy

Are you kidding? The tax collector repented of his sins.

That the heart God is looking for. That is the heart he will save, and the heart he can use. Because it will rely on him, KNOWING it has nothing

No such scripture.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Why are you shaming obedience to Christ?
It seems that you are confused and afraid to preach obedience all the way because you still hang onto some false teachings about it being wrong to obey?

What is this change of heart you are talking about?
God saves those who love Him by obeying Jesus.

And?
There are people who obeyed.

I don't agree.

Their hearts were not purified? What are you talking about? Can you use scripture with that one, so I can try to understand more of what you are trying to say?

They didn't obey, and they didn't have faith, and they didn't repent of their sins.

Interesting way you present salvation.
"God saves those who love Him by obeying Jesus."

Looking at this from another perspective, if one does not love Jesus, a response from ones
heart, and have not believed for the forgiveness of sins through His atoning sacrifice yet
have kept the moral law, are you saved?

Preterism believes one can be saved by being good.

I hold that without communion with God and the cross it is impossible to be good.
Mans nature is to refuse Gods authority and deny His position which itself is sinful.

The focus only on self leads to sinful self justification, which leads to death.
If I desire something that is someone elses, I can justify my own needs above theirs and take it.
It is this very corruption that causes people to fall into sin and lose focus on their place within
life and the community.

I am interested how far your theology goes.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Legalism

The tendency for legalism is righteousness without a heart.
Jesus put it like understanding rules but not mercy, faithfulness and justice.

It was the issues of empathy and love from the heart they missed while extolling the moral laws,
while not keeping them at the same time.

Jesus also criticised the legalists for having hearts full of greed and self indulgence rather than
love and listening and following Gods ways.

So I am not against the moral law, or the law of the Spirit, but motivated from a changed heart
which leads to victory and righteousness.

 

[BillG]

Are you kidding? The tax collector repented of his sins.

A bankrupt heart does not think he can earn salvation by his works. He realises he has NOTHING to offer. Like the tax collector. Who got on his knees unable to even look up. Asking God for mercy

Who is kidding who?

If the tax collector fell on his knees and asked God for mercy as EG states what is he doing?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus tells us what kind of heart he lives in.

This is supposed to refute what I said?

He lives in a heart HE HAS CLEANSED!! Because the person became BANCRUPT

When are you going to start to give God credit?

Poor in spirit is about being about being HUMBLE and contrite about your sins.

Isaiah 66:2 Has not My hand made all these things? And so they came into being, declares the LORD. This is the one I will esteem: he who is humble and contrite in spirit, who trembles at My word.

Poor -
πτωχός, -ή, -όν, (πτώσσω, to be thoroughly frightened, to cower down or hide one’s self for fear; hence πτωχός prop. one who slinks and crouches), often involving the idea of roving about in wretchedness [see πένης, fin.; “but it always had a bad sense till it was ennobled in the Gospels; see Mt. 5:3; Lk. 6:20, cf. 2 Co. 8:9” (L. and S. s. v. I.)]; hence
1. in class. Grk. from Hom. down, reduced to beggary, begging, mendicant, asking alms: Lk. 14:13, 21; 14:20, 22.
2. poor, needy, (opp. to πλούσιος): Mt. 19:21; 26:9, 11; Mk. 10:21; 12:42, 43; 14:5, 7; Lk. 18:22; 19:8; 21:3; Jn. 12:5, 6, 8; 13:29; Ro. 15:26; 2 Co. 6:10; Gal. 2:10; Jas. 2:2, 3, 6; Rev. 13:16; in a broader sense, destitute of wealth, influence, position, honors; lowly, afflicted:
3. univ. lacking in anything,

Yeah, Sounds like the tax collector.

When are you going to do this?

Are you kidding? The tax collector repented of his sins.

He was poor in spirit. He got on his knees unable to look up to God. Because he was bankrupt. He did this, Because he had faith in God.

No such scripture.

Blessed are those who are poor in spirit.

Once again, Scripture is right, and you are wrong.

 

[BillG]

What is this change of heart you are talking about?
God saves those who love Him by obeying Jesus.

John 3:16 would say otherwise.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Is it not Abram believed and went/obeyed?

Genesis 12:1
The Call of Abram (12:1-9)
1 The Lord had said to Abram, “Leave your native country, your relatives, and your father’s family, and go to the land that I will show you.

All of a sudden this man is going about his business.
Then next thing he hears God (often wondered how this happened).
So to me he can't have obeyed unless he believed in God.

As I have been saying all the time, we have to believe and obey. That is what God says.

So was he considered righteous by obeying or believing?

It has to be both.

If we look at the word for believe per the verse above it has the following meanings (Hebrew)

AV (108) - believe 44, assurance 1, faithful 20, sure 11, established 7, trust 5, verified 3, stedfast 2, continuance...

If we look at the word believe in the NT (pisteou, the verb form from the noun pistis)

It's in relation to the invisible God, as distinct from "faith" in man, are especially brought out in the use of this noun and the corresponding verb, pisteuo.

I don't really care about studying Greek.

So the noun is Jesus, the verb is to believe, which ensues in a following action(s) (another verb) aka works as a result of being saved and not the other way around, works to be saved.

Many on judgement day will fall foul of the latter, because?

You need to give scripture.

Belief, trust, intrust and commitment.

Commitment to be like Jesus as a result of faith.

Abram, you me and others are declared righteous by our faith and not by works.

...not by works of the law, like CIRCUMCISION.

God will not declare us righteous if we have no faith in Jesus and his death and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins which separates us from him.

If he could then our works could save us and not the death of Jesus for us.

No such thing being saved by faith without right action.

 

[BillG]

No such thing.

Ok explain why

 

[BillG]

I don't really care about studying Greek.

That's apparent.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's apparent.

Well that about explains it all right there

 

[BillG]

You need to give scripture.

Look it up for yourself.
Sheep/Goat, those Jesus said to that he never knew them.

 

[YourTruthGod]

There is no such thing as faith alone. James tried to tell you that, Many people here have told you that. Continue to state this strawman which is not found in scripture to your own demise.

There is such thing as faith alone, or James wouldn't warn us about it.

A CLAIMED faith is not a TRUE FAITH.

Faith alone is dead.

I AM careful. God is my witness. You teaching works means you reject Grace.

I preach obedience to Christ. How do you ever get that it is not grace to obey Jesus?

The law demanded perfection. Anyone who did not meet that demand has fallen short of Gods glory (that would be you and I) and accordingn to the law you are under a curse.

The only way to remeove that curse is to have faith that God will remove that curse for you by givin gyou his righteousness, As he Gave abraham in Gen 15: 6. Which is ONLY by faith

Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

You say this is not true, Which means you are against the word of God.

And PS. Your the one who started the mocking statment about how others do not understand The bible

If you can not handle the same argument used against you. Then stop judging others.

I don't make up things that people haven't said, like you do. I don't say the things you do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is such thing as faith alone, or James wouldn't warn us about it.

A claimed faith is not faith.

He did not warn us about it..

Faith alone is dead.

Meaning no faith..It does not measn faith alone.

I preach obedience to Christ. How do you ever get that it is not grace to obey Jesus?

You preach salvation by works. And reject the cross

I teach obedience to christ as do everyone here who you are attacking with your false gospel. We believe Gods truth, there is no such thing as faiht alone, FAITH WORKS.

I don't make up things that people haven't said, like you do. I don't say the things you do.

I am not making anything up. I am interpreting what you say.

You just said it again, You have said it numerous times

1. Salvation must be earned
2. Faith PLUS works save

Do you now deny saying these things?

 

[YourTruthGod]

Jesus did not say that to thief on the cross.

If faith alone is dead then do we not have a problem?

If you have faith but do not follow it through then is it dead?

Faith alone is dead and cannot save.

You go to church one day. Have arranged a meal out with the family after the service.
Know that others can't put food on the table but you still to out to the family meal.
Is your faith dead?

Could you explain that more?