Not By Works
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I think you really have tried to understand what I have been trying to say.
You bring up a very important point, and that is that the Jews were called God's children, God's people, because they entered the covenant. Other people who did not do the things the covenant required could still repent of sins, as the example being Jonah and the people of Nineveh.
You bring up a very important point, and that is that the Jews were called God's children, God's people, because they entered the covenant. Other people who did not do the things the covenant required could still repent of sins, as the example being Jonah and the people of Nineveh.
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So he earned his salvation??
HA HA.. NOT!!
[/quote]
You are wrong about that.
Faith is alone many times with many people.
Jesus gives his Spirit to those who believe and obey him. He fills our hearts with his love which makes some want to keep doing right. However, even then some people don't do right.
Obeying Jesus isn't ever wrong, no matter how many ways you try to degrade it.[/QUOTE]
Jesus gives his spirit to those who TRUST HIM (eph 1: 13 - 14.)
They heard the word, then they trusted the word. And BECAUSE fo this, they were sealed wiht the spirit.
Works come AFTER SALVATION. Not before..
People who are saved are made new creatures. That is where the work comes from. Before salvation all you have is self righteousness.
But if you think your self righteousness will save you.. So be it.. Just keep it to yourself. Because it would be a shame if you led other people astray and they followed you to the judgment seat having not been Justified by faith
HA HA.. NOT!!
[/quote]
You are wrong about that.
Faith is alone many times with many people.
Jesus gives his Spirit to those who believe and obey him. He fills our hearts with his love which makes some want to keep doing right. However, even then some people don't do right.
Obeying Jesus isn't ever wrong, no matter how many ways you try to degrade it.[/QUOTE]
Jesus gives his spirit to those who TRUST HIM (eph 1: 13 - 14.)
They heard the word, then they trusted the word. And BECAUSE fo this, they were sealed wiht the spirit.
Works come AFTER SALVATION. Not before..
People who are saved are made new creatures. That is where the work comes from. Before salvation all you have is self righteousness.
But if you think your self righteousness will save you.. So be it.. Just keep it to yourself. Because it would be a shame if you led other people astray and they followed you to the judgment seat having not been Justified by faith
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Oh am I learning alright, this thread is an eye opener.
Your false dichotomy was trying to define/undefine a person who is regenerated by how much they obey.
I know many people who do very well, in fact extraordinarily well following the ten commandments, but then if I asked them of they were saved I am sure they would not have an answer.
Only God knows who are His.
Your false dichotomy was trying to define/undefine a person who is regenerated by how much they obey.
I know many people who do very well, in fact extraordinarily well following the ten commandments, but then if I asked them of they were saved I am sure they would not have an answer.
Only God knows who are His.
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Why are you shaming obedience to Christ?
It seems that you are confused and afraid to preach obedience all the way because you still hang onto some false teachings about it being wrong to obey?
What is this change of heart you are talking about?
God saves those who love Him by obeying Jesus.
And?
There are people who obeyed.
I don't agree.
Their hearts were not purified? What are you talking about? Can you use scripture with that one, so I can try to understand more of what you are trying to say?
They didn't obey, and they didn't have faith, and they didn't repent of their sins.
It seems that you are confused and afraid to preach obedience all the way because you still hang onto some false teachings about it being wrong to obey?
What is this change of heart you are talking about?
God saves those who love Him by obeying Jesus.
And?
There are people who obeyed.
I don't agree.
Their hearts were not purified? What are you talking about? Can you use scripture with that one, so I can try to understand more of what you are trying to say?
They didn't obey, and they didn't have faith, and they didn't repent of their sins.
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I agree fully for those that do not know scripture.
But you DO.
How does regeneration happen if not by obeying God?
You may be interested in reading this:
https://books.google.it/books?id=rB...ge&q=does obedienc cause regeneration&f=false
Ezekiel 36:26-27
"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
1 Peter 1:23-25
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God. For, "ALL FLESH IS LIKE GRASS, AND ALL ITS GLORY LIKE THE FLOWER OF GRASS. THE GRASS WITHERS, AND THE FLOWER FALLS OFF, BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER " And this is the word which was preached to you.
You have been born of the imperisable...the living and enduring word of God, which endures forever.
Please learn the word of God.
But you DO.
How does regeneration happen if not by obeying God?
You may be interested in reading this:
https://books.google.it/books?id=rB...ge&q=does obedienc cause regeneration&f=false
Ezekiel 36:26-27
"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
1 Peter 1:23-25
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God. For, "ALL FLESH IS LIKE GRASS, AND ALL ITS GLORY LIKE THE FLOWER OF GRASS. THE GRASS WITHERS, AND THE FLOWER FALLS OFF, BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER " And this is the word which was preached to you.
You have been born of the imperisable...the living and enduring word of God, which endures forever.
Please learn the word of God.
That is about the purification works of the law, like circumcision.
Paul EVEN goes ON to speak of Abraham's---Circumcision!
Are you kidding? You don't know the New Covenant to come was promised by God?
Galatians 3:8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."
Paul is speaking about the boasting of the PURIFICATION/CEREMONIAL works of the law that the Jews did!
Paul EVEN further proves you wrong by teaching us that we can boast in doing right. Paul boasted in himself and others who did right.
I have many scriptures to post to prove that to you.
Again, it is about the purification/ceremonial works of the law---like CIRCUMCISION.
Do you really think that Paul said ANYWHERE that it was before Abraham did right by obeying God? No. It is about circumcision, just like Paul explains.
I can prove it to you further that you are wrong.
Tell me this, what is Peter speaking about when he says people misunderstand Paul in 2 Peter 3?
I have been telling you that we can NO LONGER PURIFY ourselves by doing the purification/ceremonial works of the law. JESUS purifies us now, by our having faith that HIS BLOOD SHED on the CROSS cleans us, of the sins we REPENT of doing.
You falsely judge me.
Wow, you are really going to keep denying what James plainly says?
Paul EVEN goes ON to speak of Abraham's---Circumcision!
Are you kidding? You don't know the New Covenant to come was promised by God?
Galatians 3:8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."
Paul is speaking about the boasting of the PURIFICATION/CEREMONIAL works of the law that the Jews did!
Paul EVEN further proves you wrong by teaching us that we can boast in doing right. Paul boasted in himself and others who did right.
I have many scriptures to post to prove that to you.
Again, it is about the purification/ceremonial works of the law---like CIRCUMCISION.
Do you really think that Paul said ANYWHERE that it was before Abraham did right by obeying God? No. It is about circumcision, just like Paul explains.
I can prove it to you further that you are wrong.
Tell me this, what is Peter speaking about when he says people misunderstand Paul in 2 Peter 3?
I have been telling you that we can NO LONGER PURIFY ourselves by doing the purification/ceremonial works of the law. JESUS purifies us now, by our having faith that HIS BLOOD SHED on the CROSS cleans us, of the sins we REPENT of doing.
You falsely judge me.
Wow, you are really going to keep denying what James plainly says?
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You going to pray for the writer of Hebrews who IS SPEAKING of GENESIS and SAYS that Abraham OBEYED AND WENT?
Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
It is a sin to bear false witness.
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A. W. Pink,
"real conversion?"
another fruit inspector
translation.......
only those with an exemplary record are "truly" converted
see now there is the problem.
My behaviour defines my status as saved (wrong) God's immutable declaration of "justified" defines my status as saved.
Now I know why I have never liked his work.
Again how many slip ups on those ten commandments to make one disobedient?
I would say one lie makes one disobedient, so now in your mutable justification theology one's "justified" status is lost
"real conversion?"
another fruit inspector
translation.......
only those with an exemplary record are "truly" converted
see now there is the problem.
My behaviour defines my status as saved (wrong) God's immutable declaration of "justified" defines my status as saved.
Now I know why I have never liked his work.
Again how many slip ups on those ten commandments to make one disobedient?
I would say one lie makes one disobedient, so now in your mutable justification theology one's "justified" status is lost
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These video's help make sense of not by works, to do the work of God... <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY0KXBviEFU>
I have been uplifted and encouraged. Controversial, this man is of the same background as you, quite interesting.
I have been uplifted and encouraged. Controversial, this man is of the same background as you, quite interesting.
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Of course he said he went, Abraham had true faith
But thats not what saved him
Gen 15: 6, And ABRAHAM believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness
NO WORKS!!!!
Your argument is with God and Moses, Not me.
Yep it is. And my conscience is clear. Because I am not bearing false witness. You do exactly what I said. Whether you believe it or not is beside the point.
You claim you are saved by your works, and you have to earn it. Thus you reject the cross and Grace
But thats not what saved him
Gen 15: 6, And ABRAHAM believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness
NO WORKS!!!!
Your argument is with God and Moses, Not me.
Yep it is. And my conscience is clear. Because I am not bearing false witness. You do exactly what I said. Whether you believe it or not is beside the point.
You claim you are saved by your works, and you have to earn it. Thus you reject the cross and Grace
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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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