Some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God

[Hevosmies]

Any walking dead or Necrophiles or Necromancers here that can tell us what
DEATH TASTES LIKE ???

Ever ate dirt? Thats the taste.

You're welcome!

 

[SIMON55]

For me, I adopt a dispensationalist view of Acts of the Apostles. If all the Jews had accepted the offer of the kingdom by Peter in Acts 2, instead of rejecting it and stoning Stephen at the end, Jesus would have returned to set up his kingdom in Jerusalem.

Thus, Jesus was not wrong when he made that remark about "some who are standing here..."

But because the Jews were given free choice and rejected Jesus as their King, that offer was postponed, as you have said, until the end of the Great Tribulation.

No I don't think there was any Jewish Free Choice going on at all.....as a matter of fact crucifiction and salvation if you are able to translate Genesis into the ancient Paleo Hebrew symbol writing says from the very beginning crucifiction and salvation would occur.... And...the meaning of the names of Adams descendants in regular Hebrew spell it out also.....And
Zechariah 12:9,10 spells out when the conversion of the Jew to Christ would occur so the Jew had been warned that they would do what they did by several prophets and it was all carved in stone by God himself speaking.....
How they could be so confounded to comprehending their own scripture is beyond comprehension without seeing it as confounding from God.....
Zechariah 12:9, 10 is God himself saying the Jew pierced him ( God ) and saying when he will convert them and pour out the SPIRIT OF GRACE. AND SUPPLICATION. on them.

 

[SIMON55]

For me, I adopt a dispensationalist view of Acts of the Apostles. If all the Jews had accepted the offer of the kingdom by Peter in Acts 2, instead of rejecting it and stoning Stephen at the end, Jesus would have returned to set up his kingdom in Jerusalem.

Thus, Jesus was not wrong when he made that remark about "some who are standing here..."

But because the Jews were given free choice and rejected Jesus as their King, that offer was postponed, as you have said, until the end of the Great Tribulation.

No I don't think there was any Jewish Free Choice going on at all.....as a matter of fact crucifiction and salvation if you are able to translate Genesis into the ancient Paleo Hebrew symbol writing says from the very beginning crucifiction and salvation would occur.... And...the meaning of the names of Adams descendants in regular Hebrew spell it out also.....And
Zechariah 12:9,10 spells out when the conversion of the Jew to Christ would occur so the Jew had been warned that they would do what they did by several prophets and it was all carved in stone by God himself speaking.....
How they could be so confounded to comprehending their own scripture is beyond comprehension without seeing it as confounding from God.....
Zechariah 12:9, 10 is God himself saying the Jew pierced him ( God ) and saying when he will convert them and pour out the SPIRIT OF GRACE. AND SUPPLICATION. on them.

 

[Guojing]

No I don't think there was any Jewish Free Choice going on at all.....as a matter of fact crucifiction and salvation if you are able to translate Genesis into the ancient Paleo Hebrew symbol writing says from the very beginning crucifiction and salvation would occur....

Yes, I am not denying that the crucifixion would have occurred. I am claiming that even if the Jews as a nation had accepted Jesus as their Messiah, i.e the Gospel of the Kingdom, it can still occur. The crucifixion is not dependent on the Jews rejecting their Gospel.

 

[Guojing]

In conclusion, those who were standing there would not taste of death before they saw the kingdom of God coming with power, were Peter, John and James and it was fulfilled when the witnessed Jesus' transfiguration into His glorified state, as well as the appearance of Moses and Elijah.

I guess it depends on what the kingdom of God means to you. For me, I take the kingdom of God as an earthly kingdom that is based on Jerusalem. I used these few OT passages to explain

Zechariah 8 explains
3 “Thus says the Lord: ‘I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the Lord of hosts, The Holy Mountain.’

Later on, in the chapter in Zechariah 8:20-23 New Living Translation (NLT)
20 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: People from nations and cities around the world will travel to Jerusalem. 21 The people of one city will say to the people of another, ‘Come with us to Jerusalem to ask the Lord to bless us. Let’s worship the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. I’m determined to go.’ 22 Many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord of Heaven’s Armies and to ask for his blessing. 23 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: In those days ten men from different nations and languages of the world will clutch at the sleeve of one Jew. And they will say, ‘Please let us walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’”

A similar prophecy was given in Micah Chapter 4 (NLT)
In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.
2 People from many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of Jacob’s God. There he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For the Lord’s teaching will go out from Zion; his word will go out from Jerusalem.

Finally, the same prophecy was given in the book of Isaiah chapter 2:2
In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.

So, based on these accounts, all the Jews are to be saved first, once they accept Jesus has the Messiah, then the Kingdom will be established in Jerusalem and the Jews will then be priests spreading that blessings to all the Gentiles.

That was the original plan and timetable, but alas, the Jews rejected God thrice, they rejected God the Father in the OT, they rejected God the Son in the 4 Gospels, and they rejected God the Holy Spirit in Acts with Stephen stoning. The last sin was deemed unforgivable under the law. Hence the postponement of that plan, to the benefit of all of us Gentiles.

 

[tanakh]

Fair enough, its all speculation on our part anyway and no one will be sure how this "alternate reality" would play out in the case where the Jews as a whole did accept Jesus. But our reality now is that the Jews rejected Jesus so there is that.

Yes, some Jews did accept Jesus. We call them Messianic Jews, and they will have the privilege, like the rest of us Gentile Church, to escape the Great Tribulation. However, the Jews as a nation have rejected Jesus as their King, you are not denying that right?

The problem is in the terminology you are using.

Exactly what "end" has taken place then? The end of Israel and the Temple? There are scores of Scripures that declare the re-establishing of Israels borders, people and Temple at the "end of the age" Then comes the Day of the Lord lasting 1000 years. The70AD judgment was a chastisement, by no means an "end".

The end was the Old Testament age dependant on the Temple and sacrificial system. The whole system was a type and shadow of
Christs sacrifice Revelation describes the New Jerusalem as having no Temple building because the city itself is Gods real Temple The one often used as proof of a future Temple in Ezekiel should be taken figuratively. Its no coincidence that many texts in Ezekiel connect exactly with Revelation. Revelation explains Ezekiel as it does with many other OT references. Also the OT is progressive it tells of Gods plan to redeem humanity and points towards Christ. That plan moves forward not backward.

According to Isaiah 9 Christs kingdom is everlasting so how can it last for only 1000 literal years? If there is to be a new heaven
and earth what would be the point of it? The day of the Lord is judgement day. It happens at Christs second coming it coincides
with the resurrection of the dead and the rapture of the living .

 

[Iconoclast]

Quite impossible. Daniel Ch 9 and the 70 weeks does not fit into the time frame of the Crucifixion. Preterism fails on every level, and most critically it fails on the level of fulfilled and unfulfilled prophecy.

Actually it was an exact fit.After 3.5 yrs He was cut off.

 

[Iconoclast]

I guess it depends on what the kingdom of God means to you. For me, I take the kingdom of God as an earthly kingdom that is based on Jerusalem. I used these few OT passages to explain

Zechariah 8 explains
3 “Thus says the Lord: ‘I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the Lord of hosts, The Holy Mountain.’

Later on, in the chapter in Zechariah 8:20-23 New Living Translation (NLT)
20 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: People from nations and cities around the world will travel to Jerusalem. 21 The people of one city will say to the people of another, ‘Come with us to Jerusalem to ask the Lord to bless us. Let’s worship the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. I’m determined to go.’ 22 Many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord of Heaven’s Armies and to ask for his blessing. 23 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: In those days ten men from different nations and languages of the world will clutch at the sleeve of one Jew. And they will say, ‘Please let us walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’”

A similar prophecy was given in Micah Chapter 4 (NLT)
In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.
2 People from many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of Jacob’s God. There he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For the Lord’s teaching will go out from Zion; his word will go out from Jerusalem.

Finally, the same prophecy was given in the book of Isaiah chapter 2:2
In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.

So, based on these accounts, all the Jews are to be saved first, once they accept Jesus has the Messiah, then the Kingdom will be established in Jerusalem and the Jews will then be priests spreading that blessings to all the Gentiles.

That was the original plan and timetable, but alas, the Jews rejected God thrice, they rejected God the Father in the OT, they rejected God the Son in the 4 Gospels, and they rejected God the Holy Spirit in Acts with Stephen stoning. The last sin was deemed unforgivable under the law. Hence the postponement of that plan, to the benefit of all of us Gentiles.

hebrewsc12 speaks of Jesus ruling from the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem

 

[Guojing]

hebrewsc12 speaks of Jesus ruling from the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem

Yes, because the Jews rejected Jesus, Jesus is now still sitting in heaven but on his Father's throne. That is the Heavenly Zion/Jerusalem.

He is now waiting for the full measure of the Gentiles to be brought into the church, before he will return to sit on David's throne in Jerusalem. This is the kingdom I am referring to, which will be a 1000 year millennial rule.

Then this prophecy will finally come to pass

Jeremiah 23:5 KJV Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.

And was repeated to Mary by the Angel Gabriel

Luke 1 NLT 30 “Don’t be afraid, Mary,” the angel told her, “for you have found favor with God! 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32 He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David. 33 And he will reign over Israel[c] forever; his Kingdom will never end!”

 

[Woodsyliving]

Steven was the first one to taste death after seeing the Kingdom of God which is in Heaven.
Acts 7:55
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Acts 7:56
And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

 

[cv5]

Actually it was an exact fit.After 3.5 yrs He was cut off.

Not by a longshot. Read my earlier posts to review my assessment.

 

[Absolutely]

Not really, his crucifixion was according to the scriptures and the rejection by the nation was prophesied.

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

The cross was necessary for Christ to enter his glory (the kingdom) and we can determine what is meant by his glory:

Mark 10:35 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire.

Mark 10:36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?

Mark 10:37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.

And we should remember he stated his kingdom was not of this world:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

The claim that the Jews rejected the kingdom thus postponing it is in error as he could with his "servants fight" to take the physical kingdom if he wanted, therefore the dispensational argument is built on quick sand.

His servants do fight on his return with them in rev 19,and we take the world .

 

[Absolutely]

Not really, his crucifixion was according to the scriptures and the rejection by the nation was prophesied.

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

The cross was necessary for Christ to enter his glory (the kingdom) and we can determine what is meant by his glory:

Mark 10:35 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire.

Mark 10:36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?

Mark 10:37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.

And we should remember he stated his kingdom was not of this world:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

The claim that the Jews rejected the kingdom thus postponing it is in error as he could with his "servants fight" to take the physical kingdom if he wanted, therefore the dispensational argument is built on quick sand.

Yes.
Once prophesied,the events were locked in.
Plus the bride is gentile. (As is depicted in Ruth)
So,no possibility of another series of events.
Same with Adam.
Adam would fall. It is just the way it is.

 

[Absolutely]

Not really, his crucifixion was according to the scriptures and the rejection by the nation was prophesied.

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

The cross was necessary for Christ to enter his glory (the kingdom) and we can determine what is meant by his glory:

Mark 10:35 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire.

Mark 10:36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?

Mark 10:37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.

And we should remember he stated his kingdom was not of this world:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

The claim that the Jews rejected the kingdom thus postponing it is in error as he could with his "servants fight" to take the physical kingdom if he wanted, therefore the dispensational argument is built on quick sand.

Btw,nice post with those verses.

 

[Absolutely]

Yes, I am not denying that the crucifixion would have occurred. I am claiming that even if the Jews as a nation had accepted Jesus as their Messiah, i.e the Gospel of the Kingdom, it can still occur. The crucifixion is not dependent on the Jews rejecting their Gospel.

Actually one of the gospels declares;the law and the prophets were until JTB.
The priesthood changed at Jesus's baptism.
Even Johns beheading was critical.
The levitical priesthood had to be anulled forever.

 

[Absolutely]

Steven was the first one to taste death after seeing the Kingdom of God which is in Heaven.
Acts 7:55
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Acts 7:56
And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Yes,he, and John in rev.
Paul may not have been "standing here" but he went to heaven in a vision/bodily and saw the kingdom

 

[cv5]

Actually it was an exact fit.After 3.5 yrs He was cut off.

3.5 years is not mentioned in Dan 9. Only Dan 7, Dan 12, Rev 11 & 12.
Daniel 9 cannot and does not fit into any preterist interpretation.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Daniel 9 cannot and does not fit into any preterist interpretation.

Agreed!

 

[Locutus]

Dan 9:24-27 fits perfectly well with preterism - Daniel mentions no gap between week 69 and 70, this supposed delay/gap is an invention of dispensation "theology".

 

[Iconoclast]

3.5 years is not mentioned in Dan 9. Only Dan 7, Dan 12, Rev 11 & 12.
Daniel 9 cannot and does not fit into any preterist interpretation.

Sure it is...watch;
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.