Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
See how dishonest and deceptive you are....one of the most deceptive and dishonest people I have ever dealt with.....and you claim to be faithful, saved and obedient.....You know full well my drivel statement is directed at the Catholic dogma of self saving works/obedience losaable salvation deceit that you peddle like popcorn at the cinema.....hilariously sad.....
You said I posed drivel.
I posted SCRIPTURE.....so you're calling the scripture drivel.

And,,,the Catholic church is not the only church that teaches that we are to behave as Jesus wants us to AFTER WE ARE SAVED.

Are you not familiar with any other church other than the cc?
The church YOU attend teaches that it's not necessary to obey God?

We are to become like Jesus...

The N.T. calls us BRETHREN. We are all brothers in Christ
And Jesus is the FIRST BORN ....
We become children of God and brothers of Jesus...
Mathew 12:50

God's purpose is to make us like His Son so that we could become members of His Kingdom on earth and be members of a redeemed mankind.

Romans 8:29 God predestined us to be like His Son.
29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
How or what in the world does who agrees with who have to do with love......man you have so much to unlearn and relearn if you are ever going to be right in what you believe.....very skewed views you have
If you don't understand,,,,
I won't explain it.

Do you love only those who agree with you
OR
all your brothers in Christ?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
I see much dislike of some eminating from you....
maybe someone needs new glasses:sneaky:


nothing to do with like

i believe Peter is out of line in many ways

towards many of Gods children

he also perverts Gods word and twists it how he sees fit

maybe this is not his intention
maybe he really just needs some new glasses too

but talking doctrine with him is like playing a game of whack a mole where they never come up... kinda pointless.... ive tried many times

it is a game to him where he chooses the rules


and talking doctrine with you is like giving a bath to a stinky leopard that hates water


im sorry i am not perfect in delivery fran

im not

but i do love YOU
i love you

and i have spent many hours trying to open my heart to you and share what God has revealed to me through His wonderful scriptures and much prayer

and probably just as many hours with you in the fruitless back and forths where we both point our fingers....


but i dont "dislike" you

i just cant stand a doctrine which attempts to belittle Christ

and elevate man
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
maybe someone needs new glasses:sneaky:


nothing to do with like

i believe Peter is out of line in many ways

towards many of Gods children

he also perverts Gods word and twists it how he sees fit

maybe this is not his intention
maybe he really just needs some new glasses too

but talking doctrine with him is like playing a game of whack a mole where they never come up... kinda pointless.... ive tried many times

it is a game to him where he chooses the rules


and talking doctrine with you is like giving a bath to a stinky leopard that hates water


im sorry i am not perfect in delivery fran

im not

but i do love YOU
i love you

and i have spent many hours trying to open my heart to you and share what God has revealed to me through His wonderful scriptures and much prayer

and probably just as many hours with you in the fruitless back and forths where we both point our fingers....


but i dont "dislike" you

i just cant stand a doctrine which attempts to belittle Christ

and elevate man
How does saying that we have to OBEY JESUS....
belittle Him?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
How does saying that we have to OBEY JESUS....
belittle Him?

You belittle His sacrifice when you claim your works keep you saved.

You belittle His gift when you say salvation is earned.

You belittle His glory when you say you get some credit.

(these are all your quotes)
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
The itsy TWISTY spider...

...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. THEY ARE GODLESS MEN, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

...They claim to know God, but by THEIR ACTIONS they DENY Him. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and UNFIT for doing anything good. Titus 1:16

Look who's talking about HONESTY.

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Do you not CALL EVIL GOOD and GOOD EVIL? (Isaiah 5:20-24)

Is it RIGHT to OBEY God? Is it GOOD or is it WRONG and EVIL? If it is RIGHT and GOOD, why do you call those who promote OBEDIENCE TO GOD as FALSE or peddlers of a FALSE GOSPEL?

Do you not insult and call the views of those who promote OBEDIENCE to God as IDIOTIC?

It's funny how your group can say that only genuine believers would OBEY God and those who promote OBEDIENCE to God are LOST, UNBELIEVERS, FALSE, DECEIVER, NOT SAVED TO BEGIN WITH and many other discriminating NEGATIVE remarks.

And when you are called out, you will accuse them of SLANDER and start bullying those who disagree with you.

But scriptures fortold of these kind of people and behaviour.

.. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. Jude 1:14-19

...If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

...Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. HE WHO DOES WHAT IS RIGHT IS RIGHTEOUS, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

IS IT RIGHT TO OBEY GOD or not?

Are you an instrument of God's righteousness or do you just BELIEVE and let God do everything for you?

Who now is the LORD, you?...and who is your servant, GOD?

....“You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then THOSE WHO FEARED THE LORD talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I WILL SPARE THEM, just as in compassion a man spares HIS SON WHO SERVES HIM. And you will again see the DISTINCTION between the RIGHTEOUS and the WICKED, between those who SERVE GOD and those who do not. Malachi 3:13-18

...God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him WE MIGHT BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD. 2 Corinthians 5:21
How could it have nothing to do with Catholicism when they make the same argument about works of the law and good works? Other works-salvationists make the same argument that we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works and here is an example below from a statement made by someone who attends the church of Christ:

"It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit." :cautious:

The N.T. speaks against works in general AS THE BASIS OR MEANS BY WHICH WE RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE. Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and NOT based on the merits of our works. Titus 3:5 - not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. 2 Timothy 1:9 - who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. So works are not merely limited to specific works of the law, but works in general and you cannot dissect good works from the law (Matthew 22:37-40)

This covers everything. Which good works are "completely detached" from loving God and our neighbor as ourself? The bases are all covered.

When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect good works from the law. In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. So please explain to me, which good works could a Christian do which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18).

I'm not speaking against good works as the FRUIT of salvation, but only as the ROOT of salvation. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). You are still hung up on type 2 works salvation.
"compares himself to Paul chastising the Jews"

To those with eyes and ears.
If you know the truth, and God condemns someone and you know, and you do not warn
them, God will hold you accountable for His judgement.

A fool will say, oh I do not know God or this warning, so it means nothing to me.
But then a fool does not know God or His word and himself is doomed to judgement.

But read Ezekiel as I have quoted, and then know the God who you serve.

When I say to a wicked man,
'You will surely die,'
and
you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life,
that wicked man will die for his sin, and
I will hold you accountable for his blood.


But if you do warn the wicked man and
he does not turn from his wickedness or
from his evil ways,
he will die for his sin;
but you will have saved yourself.

Ezek 3:18-19
I love the verse's message with it's WARNINGS and ACCOUNTABILITY. God's LOVE, MERCY and JUSTICE will prevail.

...Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with God’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but LEAVE ROOM FOR GOD'S WRATH, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” DO NOT BE OVERCOME BY EVIL, BUT OVERCOME EVIL WITH GOOD. Romans 12:9-21

...LET GOD BE TRUE...Romans 3:3-4
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
Whether or not our heart is "in it". God does appreciate the action, even if we do it without love.
You'll find that after a while love will become more and more a part of your action.
Hearts are purified eventually...Christian living does not happen all at once...although it can.
We bring our past with us....God knows this.
Just do things even if you don't love to....
Don't go beyond what you can bear because then you'll resent God and/or doing the good.
Thats encouraging.

I will continue on. maybe indeed it takes a while for feelings to change due to past!
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Thats encouraging.

I will continue on. maybe indeed it takes a while for feelings to change due to past!
Continue On.....
Great wording!
This is all God wants.
Who goes to Jesus....He will in no way cast out!
God is faithful to His word.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
You belittle His sacrifice when you claim your works keep you saved.

You belittle His gift when you say salvation is earned.

You belittle His glory when you say you get some credit.

(these are all your quotes)
1. Yes. My obedience to God keeps me saved. This is what Jesus has taught.

2. Salvation is free and faith is a gift from God. We cannot save ourselves.
AFTER salvation,,,we earn our relationship with God by staying close to Him and walking with Him.
I'm sorry for those who do not understand this....and yet I've explained it many times. No matter.

3. I never said I get credit...I never said I get merit.
I don't get credit or merit just because I do what God says.
God is God. We are REQUIRED to obey Him....
Does the word REQUIRED sound like merit to you?

You have not understood anything I say because you're too involved in your own beliefs to even listen to others...who may be right, BTW.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
Continue On.....
Great wording!
This is all God wants.
Who goes to Jesus....He will in no way cast out!
God is faithful to His word.
Unless he is dosobedient or falters in his faith....I submit to all that you are worse than the vacillating waves of the sea........which is it....He will in no way cast out or he will because one can lose or forfeit salvation.....get your facts straight Fran.....
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
shes calling you out for judging that TT is a brother...... but she says this




(but for the record i agree both these two are my brothers in Christ.... guess im storing up wrath)

Have you notice that GodsGrace101 is now posting BORING for anything we TRY TO EXPLAIN ABOUT SCRIPTURE TO HIM. I have him on my IGNORE, but he just insists on being RUDE.

My guess is he had never read this scripture:

Romans 1:29-32 (NCV)
29 They are filled with every kind of sin, evil, selfishness, and hatred. They are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, lying, and thinking the worst about each other. They gossip
30 and say evil things about each other. They hate God. They are rude and conceited and brag about themselves. They invent ways of doing evil. They do not obey their parents.
31 They are foolish, they do not keep their promises, and they show no kindness or mercy to others.
32 They know God’s law says that those who live like this should die. But they themselves not only continue to do these evil things, they applaud others who do them.

Matthew 7:20 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
1. Yes. My obedience to God keeps me saved. This is what Jesus has taught.

2. Salvation is free and faith is a gift from God. We cannot save ourselves.
AFTER salvation,,,we earn our relationship with God by staying close to Him and walking with Him.
I'm sorry for those who do not understand this....and yet I've explained it many times. No matter.

3. I never said I get credit...I never said I get merit.
I don't get credit or merit just because I do what God says.
God is God. We are REQUIRED to obey Him....
Does the word REQUIRED sound like merit to you?

You have not understood anything I say because you're too involved in your own beliefs to even listen to others...who may be right, BTW.

Baking a cake for a neighbor is doing a good work/deed.
I had to decide to bake the cake.
I had to decide to do a good deed.
I took the ingredients out of the cupboard and put them together.

Yes. I take some credit. You think this is taking God's sovereignty away from Him?

if you believe works keep you saved.... and you take SOME credit for your works....how can you say you take no credit for ultimately being saved?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
1. Yes. My obedience to God keeps me saved. This is what Jesus has taught.

2. Salvation is free and faith is a gift from God. We cannot save ourselves.
AFTER salvation,,,we earn our relationship with God by staying close to Him and walking with Him.
I'm sorry for those who do not understand this....and yet I've explained it many times. No matter.

3. I never said I get credit...I never said I get merit.
I don't get credit or merit just because I do what God says.
God is God. We are REQUIRED to obey Him....
Does the word REQUIRED sound like merit to you?

You have not understood anything I say because you're too involved in your own beliefs to even listen to others...who may be right, BTW.
Right there you all...she KEEPS HERSELF SAVED....Her Jesus is too weak or inept to keep he saved......wow...is that the Catholic god not found in scripture?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Unless he is dosobedient or falters in his faith....I submit to all that you are worse than the vacillating waves of the sea........which is it....He will in no way cast out or he will because one can lose or forfeit salvation.....get your facts straight Fran.....
My facts are very straight.
And praise be to God....@Hevosmies understands more than some here ever will.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
Have you notice that GodsGrace101 is now posting BORING for anything we TRY TO EXPLAIN ABOUT SCRIPTURE TO HIM. I have him on my IGNORE, but he just insists on being RUDE.

My guess is he had never read this scripture:

Romans 1:29-32 (NCV)
29 They are filled with every kind of sin, evil, selfishness, and hatred. They are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, lying, and thinking the worst about each other. They gossip
30 and say evil things about each other. They hate God. They are rude and conceited and brag about themselves. They invent ways of doing evil. They do not obey their parents.
31 They are foolish, they do not keep their promises, and they show no kindness or mercy to others.
32 They know God’s law says that those who live like this should die. But they themselves not only continue to do these evil things, they applaud others who do them.
Her last post about keeping herself saved reeks of a complete lack of faith and trust.....
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
if you believe works keep you saved.... and you take SOME credit for your works....how can you say you take no credit for ultimately being saved?
Who made the cake?
Me or God.....
You really need to understand more.

We were speaking about how we're to respond to God's love with good works/deeds.
We DO THE GOOD DEEDS.
Meriting credit from God is HIS doing....I don't know how much credit He gives me.....that will be up to HIM.

I just do what I think I have to do,,,,but, yes, I AM the one doing the work.
If you think this is taking God's sovereignty away from Him (which we were also discussing)
then YOU have a very low esteem of God...
Not me.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
if you believe works keep you saved.... and you take SOME credit for your works....how can you say you take no credit for ultimately being saved?
Amen.....The Jesus peddled by one espousing such a dogma reeks of one that is inept, a liar and does not keep his word.......it totally devalues Jesus and enthrones self......