Not By Works

[GodsGrace101]

What do you mean by the "wrong kind of trinity?" Do you believe that there is ONE God in essence/nature who eternally exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Do you believe that JESUS IS GOD?

@unclesilas means that you're making the bible into a God.
How could you ask him such a dumb question after all he's posted?
Do you all even read posts or do you just like to argue?

Instead of listening to GOD
You stick to every word of the bible as if your life depended on it.
And no, it does NOT depend on IT... your life is in the hands of God.


In post 86,313, @eternally-grateful states that commentators write what they believe.
You've stated that the NIV writes the word prize after 1 Corinthians. Of course you surely know that the NIV is a believer in OSAS....and if you also notice, NONE of the other versions ADDED this word to the verse. Including the YLT. As you've said many times.......we are NOT to add words to scripture...so why do you post a bible that clearly adds words to scripture?

Being rejected, castaway, disapproved, diqualified refers to salvation. Paul did not go on his missionary journeys to teach how to get a prize.

He repeats this idea in
Philippians 3:13-15
13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;
16however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

And here it is in the NIV:
13Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
15All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
16Only let us live up to what we have already attained.



And what is this prize/crown?

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

God has promised us ETERNAL LIFE, not a prize.

Read 1 Corinthians 4:4-5
4For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord.
5Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.

Paul is stating above that he doesn't even trust his own judgement but he, and we, must wait till Jesus' return when HE will do the judging.


part 1 of 2

 

[mailmandan]

No, according to me, all this different people who believe different claiming the HS taught them can not be true, UNLES the holy spirit is the author of confusion.

So find a better reason why you think your right, and that goes for all of us, the HS strawman is useless.

Well thats good.

Ok, now this i see, i thought you ment today the HS.. forgive me.

While growing up in the Roman Catholic church, I would hear the priests claim what they teach is from the Holy Spirit, yet they pervert the gospel and promote all sorts of false doctrine. It's the same with other false religions and cults.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Part 2 of 2


And as to commentators,,,, I'll post some that do not agree with your commentators.
As you can see, the following believe that Paul's worry as to being disqualified refers to his salvation and the word lost is plainly used.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


When I have preached to others - Doddridge renders this, "lest after having served as a herald to others, I should myself be disapproved;" and supposes that there was allusion in this to the Grecian "herald," whose business it was to proclaim the conditions of the games, to display the prizes, etc. In this interpretation, also, Macknight, Rosenmuller, Koppe, and most of the modern interpreters agree. They suppose, therefore, that the allusion to the games is carried through all this description. But there is this difficulty in this interpretation, that it represents the apostle as both a herald and a contender in the games and thus leads to an inextricable confusion of metaphor. Probably, therefore; this is to be taken in the usual sense of the word "preaching" in the New Testament; and the apostle here is to be understood as "dropping" the metaphor, and speaking in the usual manner. He had preached to others, to many others. He had proclaimed the gospel far and near. He had preached to many thousands, and had been the means of the conversion of thousands. The contest, the agony, the struggle in which he had been engaged, was that of preaching the gospel in the most effectual manner. And yet he felt that there was a possibility that even after all this he might be lost.

I myself should be a cast-away. - This word (ἀδόκιμος adokimos) is taken from "bad metals" and properly denotes those which will not bear the "test" that is applied to them; that are found to be base and worthless, and are therefore rejected and cast away. The apostle had subjected himself to trials. He had given himself to self-denial and toil; to persecution and want; to perils, and cold, and nakedness, and hunger. He had done this, among other things, to give his religion a fair trial, to see whether it would bear all these tests; as metal is cast into the fire to see whether it is genuine, or is base and worthless. In doing this, he had endeavored to subdue his corrupt propensities, and bring everything into captivity to the Redeemer, that it might be found that he was a sincere, and humble, and devoted Christian. Many have supposed that the word "cast-away" here refers to those who had entered the lists, and had contended, and who had then been examined as to the manner in which they had conducted the contest, and had been found to have departed from the rules of the games, and who were then rejected. But this interpretation is too artificial and unnatural. The simple idea of Paul is, that he was afraid that he should be disapproved, rejected, cast off; that it would appear, after all, that he had no religion, and would then be cast away as unfit to enter into heaven.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Remarks On 1 Corinthians 9

From the many remarks which might be made from this interesting chapter, we may select the following:

1. We see the great anxiety which Paul had to save souls. This was his grand purpose; and for this he was willing to deny himself and to bear any trial.

2. We should be kind to others; we should not needlessly offend them; we should conform to them, as far as it can be done consistently with Christian integrity.

3. We should make an effort to be saved. O if people made such exertions to obtain a corruptible crown, how much greater should we make to obtain one that fadeth not away!

[please note that we exert ourselves to obtain a crown..not that it is already obtained]

4. Ministers, like others, are in danger of losing their souls. If Paul felt this danger, who is there among the ministers of the cross who should not feel it? If Paul was not safe, who is? (See the supplementary note on 1 Corinthians 9:27.)

5. The fact that a man has preached to many is no certain evidence that he will be saved, 1 Corinthians 9:27. Paul had preached to thousands, and yet he felt that after all this there was a possibility that be might be lost.

6. The fact that a man has been very successful in the ministry is no certain evidence that he will be saved. God converts people; and he may sometimes do it by the instrumentality of those who themselves are deceived, or are deceivers. They may preach much truth; and God may bless that truth, and make it the means of saving the soul. There is no conclusive evidence that a man is a Christian simply because he is a successful and laborious preacher, any more than there is that a man is a Christian because he is a good farmer, and because God sends down the rain and the sunshine on his fields. Paul felt that even his success was no certain evidence that he would be saved. And if Paul felt thus, who should not feel that after the most distinguished success, he may himself be at last a castaway?

7. It will be a solemn and awesome thing for a minister of the gospel, and a "successful" minister, to go down to hell. What more fearful doom can be conceived, than after having led others in the way to life; after having described to them the glories of heaven; after having conducted them to the "sweet fields beyond the swelling flood" of death, he should find himself shut out, rejected, and cast down to hell! What more terrible can be imagined in the world of perdition than the doom of one who was once a minister of God, and once esteemed as a light in the church and a guide of souls, now sentenced to inextinguishable fires, while multitudes saved by him shall have gone to heaven! How fearful is the condition and how solemn the vocation of a minister of the gospel!

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


The above shows that Paul was interested in HIS SALVATION,
NOT in a prize/crown.

There's much more for those interested....

source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_corinthians/9-27.htm

 

[Budman]

I know you cannot easily do it, if you could, you would have done it by now to prove me wrong

Now you've been completely exposed. Mailmandan backed you into a corner and you're absolutely squirming to get out. Whatever credibility you had is now long gone.

 

[GodsGrace101]

While growing up in the Roman Catholic church, I would hear the priests claim what they teach is from the Holy Spirit, yet they pervert the gospel and promote all sorts of false doctrine. It's the same with other false religions and cults.

Oh.
This is just too sweet.

I hear on these threads that people hear from the Holy Spirit...

Isn't it strange how the Holy Spirit can't get His message straight and teaches us all a different gospel,,,as Dcon would say.

Strange indeed.

 

[dcontroversal]

I just did.

But okay, so people called you liar and deceiver, now if I got a dime for every time I was called a name on the internet, I would be writing this from a mansion in Alaska! (Yes, Alaska you read that right, NOT A FAN of warm climate!)

It takes a long time -> it may take a long time. Yes they are different statements, from two different people, i dont see why thats so alarming? Surely you dont think that everyone is perfect the moment of conversion?

I mean, I know a bunch of people burnt their witchcraft books or secular music CDs when they got saved, but they were still far from perfect!

Is he still whining about the truth..........man they sell diapers/nappies at Walmart and binkies as well.......a member had a good reply yesterday...told him to buy a tomato plant and learn something HAHHAHAH

 

[Budman]

Oh look. The deceiver Fran is back. Why not just close your account and come back under another moniker like you did when you got banned the last time?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Now you've been completely exposed. Mailmandan backed you into a corner and you're absolutely squirming to get out. Whatever credibility you had is now long gone.

Oh..
You mean @unclesilas had credibility to you before?
You, who NEVER answers my posts but likes to make condescending remarks?

So, following YOUR train of thought,
YOU have no credibility.

 

[unclesilas]

@unclesilas means that you're making the bible into a God.
How could you ask him such a dumb question after all he's posted?
Do you all even read posts or do you just like to argue?

Some people have to deflect when asked to explain scripture, the alternative would be unthinkable for those who believe they have deep understanding, admitting they cannot do it

 

[dcontroversal]

Now you've been completely exposed. Mailmandan backed you into a corner and you're absolutely squirming to get out. Whatever credibility you had is now long gone.

Amen.....same with NONEWSMAN..........14 translations translated the word disqualified and the context is Paul's ministry and yet he holds on to the titanic of losing salvation as it sinks......maybe he can work his way up the ship and out of the sea of dishonesty

 

[Hevosmies]

John 10:27-28 (KJV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

let us take God's Word as we find it, and not alter it to suit our wishes. The absolute safety of the sheep is certain. But there is another absolute statement here. Many try to separate them, to their own peril and to the peril of those who believe them.

notice: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."

dont deny the plain statement of God's Word -- "My sheep follow me." There are no exceptions allowed.

He who follows is one of the sheep. He who does not follow is not of Christ's fold no matter how loudly he may bleat his "ba-a-a's."

these are all present-tense statements. "They are hearing My voice"; "they are following Me"; "I am giving eternal life"; those who are so doing "shall never perish."

There is absolutely nothing in this scripture, or anywhere else in the Bible, to give false confidence to any who are not now following the Lord, whatever their past might have been.

We must not wrest the Scriptures, as some do, "unto their own destruction" (II Pet. 3:16).

No one is authorized to rewrite this passage to read, "They once heard My voice and followed Me, and I give unto them eternal life."

By no stretch of the imagination can these verses properly be supposed to give security to wandering, straying sheep, who go after the thief that comes to steal, kill, and destroy (v. 10).

Reduced to its simplest logic, this passage asserts: All who are secure are Christ's sheep; None who do not follow are Christ's sheep. Therefore, none who do not follow are secure.

NO! You didnt adress my SECOND verse which PROVED that Jesus never knew those who He cast to hell!

You only adressed the first verse and made it conditional. But I proved with the second verse why it doesnt work like that. Once Jesus saves someone they are saved eternally! Thats what it said. He KNEW the sheep, the sheep followed Him, and He gave them eternal life, and nobody will take the sheep from Him.

I have a THIRD proof for you. The theologians call this the GOLDEN CHAIN OF REDEMPTION. Look up James White's sermon on this, its GOOD in my opinion:

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

its an UNBROKEN chain! It doesnt mention any failures! You can say free will all you want but I believe in PREDESTINATION. Once I see something I cant "unsee" it. and this i see: Jesus knows His sheep, Jesus NEVER knew those whom He cast to hell.

NEVER KNEW, not knew once, were sheep before then evolution took over and they're goats and dont know them no more. It said NEVER KNEW, but the Sheep He DID knew!

You also said about "false confidence to those not following" well the verse I quoted and you did too says the sheep DO follow, so you got a non-argument there buddy!

 

[Budman]

Oh..
You mean @unclesilas had credibility to you before?
You, who NEVER answers my posts but likes to make condescending remarks?

So, following YOUR train of thought,
YOU have no credibility.

You get answers to your posts, but you ignore them. Just like your pals.

 

[dcontroversal]

Oh.
This is just too sweet.

I hear on these threads that people hear from the Holy Spirit...

Isn't it strange how the Holy Spirit can't get His message straight and teaches us all a different gospel,,,as Dcon would say.

Strange indeed.

I have never said that..........but I have said the truth will lead us all to the same conclusions if we are HONEST with the verbiage, verb tense and context.....so....FRAN......you should really quit accusing me of saying things I do not say....nor imply!

 

[Budman]

I see Fran wants to c/p us all to death.

 

[lightbearer]

.

So find a better reason why you think your right, and that goes for all of us, the HS strawman is useless.

It is pointless to bring up. A strawman as you say.

Ok, now this i see, i thought you ment today the HS.. forgive me.

You don't believe GOD leads us into all truth through Christ; through HIS Spirit?

 

[Goodnewsman]

I see. So, you keep the commandments perfectly at all times - or do you sin every single day?

Cue excuses for your hypocrisy in 3.....2....1.....

sin should never be excused......have you seen the cross of our Christ.........if you want to know what God thinks of sin, look at the cross and you'll stop making excuses for it..

i noticed you didn't address the scriptures i gave you.

do you believe what bible say? or you looking for excuses to live the way you want?

 

[dcontroversal]

You get answers to your posts, but you ignore them. Just like your pals.

Or twist what we say into something we did not say.....MODUS Operandi of the workers for and salvation losers

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I just did.

But okay, so people called you liar and deceiver, now if I got a dime for every time I was called a name on the internet, I would be writing this from a mansion in Alaska! (Yes, Alaska you read that right, NOT A FAN of warm climate!)

It takes a long time -> it may take a long time. Yes they are different statements, from two different people, i dont see why thats so alarming? Surely you dont think that everyone is perfect the moment of conversion?

I mean, I know a bunch of people burnt their witchcraft books or secular music CDs when they got saved, but they were still far from perfect!

He did not get the word dc said wromg

He is trying to interpret those words to mean something dc did not say.

Thats his error

 

[eternally-gratefull]

While growing up in the Roman Catholic church, I would hear the priests claim what they teach is from the Holy Spirit, yet they pervert the gospel and promote all sorts of false doctrine. It's the same with other false religions and cults.

The HS cant teach all these doctrines, people need to stop using that as an excuse. There is only 1 truth, not many

 

[GodsGrace101]

Still waiting for an answer of YES or NO.

Gosh MMD, you're a smart guy but you could be so dense at times.

You got your answer in post no. 86,311 by @unclesilas ...

He's right, you just don't UNDERSTAND it.

Now could we stop this nonsense?


Here's the post 86,311

@unclesilas says:

I believe People in effect have a trinity of Father,, Son and the bible. The Holy Spirit is much ignored and that is why they canot spiritually discern what is written in reputable translations of the bible. They rely on their little grey cells to learn and so go off scurrying away to the greek and concordances to gain what they consider deep understanding of the word. Only one can give you that, and he most certainly does not rely on you reading the greek to teach you