Not By Works

[Goodnewsman]

John 10:27-28 (KJV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

let us take God's Word as we find it, and not alter it to suit our wishes. The absolute safety of the sheep is certain. But there is another absolute statement here. Many try to separate them, to their own peril and to the peril of those who believe them.

notice: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."

dont deny the plain statement of God's Word -- "My sheep follow me." There are no exceptions allowed.

He who follows is one of the sheep. He who does not follow is not of Christ's fold no matter how loudly he may bleat his "ba-a-a's."

these are all present-tense statements. "They are hearing My voice"; "they are following Me"; "I am giving eternal life"; those who are so doing "shall never perish."

There is absolutely nothing in this scripture, or anywhere else in the Bible, to give false confidence to any who are not now following the Lord, whatever their past might have been.

We must not wrest the Scriptures, as some do, "unto their own destruction" (II Pet. 3:16).

No one is authorized to rewrite this passage to read, "They once heard My voice and followed Me, and I give unto them eternal life."

By no stretch of the imagination can these verses properly be supposed to give security to wandering, straying sheep, who go after the thief that comes to steal, kill, and destroy (v. 10).

Reduced to its simplest logic, this passage asserts: All who are secure are Christ's sheep; None who do not follow are Christ's sheep. Therefore, none who do not follow are secure.

 

[Goodnewsman]

Guys check this out. proof of eternal security 100% irrefutable:


Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I highlighted the word "I know them" because Jesus KNOWS the sheep. Now this proves sheep will always be sheep:

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There Jesus casts folks into hell and He NEVER knew them, not used to know them.

Did anyone see it like I did?

John 10:27-28 (KJV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

let us take God's Word as we find it, and not alter it to suit our wishes. The absolute safety of the sheep is certain. But there is another absolute statement here. Many try to separate them, to their own peril and to the peril of those who believe them.

notice: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."

dont deny the plain statement of God's Word -- "My sheep follow me." There are no exceptions allowed.

He who follows is one of the sheep. He who does not follow is not of Christ's fold no matter how loudly he may bleat his "ba-a-a's."

these are all present-tense statements. "They are hearing My voice"; "they are following Me"; "I am giving eternal life"; those who are so doing "shall never perish."

There is absolutely nothing in this scripture, or anywhere else in the Bible, to give false confidence to any who are not now following the Lord, whatever their past might have been.

We must not wrest the Scriptures, as some do, "unto their own destruction" (II Pet. 3:16).

No one is authorized to rewrite this passage to read, "They once heard My voice and followed Me, and I give unto them eternal life."

By no stretch of the imagination can these verses properly be supposed to give security to wandering, straying sheep, who go after the thief that comes to steal, kill, and destroy (v. 10).

Reduced to its simplest logic, this passage asserts: All who are secure are Christ's sheep; None who do not follow are Christ's sheep. Therefore, none who do not follow are secure.

 

[unclesilas]

Ultimately, no matter how many years you discuss faith and works it comes down to the following:

I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.’[f]

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
Romans9:15&16

 

[mailmandan]

In the context of Paul's words YES......it does not mean lose salvation.....it means to be disqualified or unusable....and as long as you are not honest with the use of the word and context you will continue to peddle deceitful error........

Adikimos Definition:

1. not standing the test, not approved
   1. properly used of metals and coins
2. that which does not prove itself such as it ought
   1. unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/adokimos.html

You are correct that in the context of 1 Corinthians 9:27, it does not mean lose salvation. *The NIV says ..disqualified for the prize and not disqualified for salvation. This is what happens when people give words a "broad brushed definition" in every instance. I see this happen a lot with the word "justified." (Romans 5:1; James 2:24) A "broad brushed definition" of the word "justified" results in the false doctrine of "saved by works" in James 2:24.

In context, Paul asks the question. What is the prize before Paul? Is it that reward of which he spoke in verse 1 Corinthians 9:18, his glorying of preaching a free gospel? There are those who take Paul to be referring to the possibility of his rejection in his personal salvation at the end of the race. The problem that I see with that interpretation is there is a difference between a prize and a gift. A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit. Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. Yet salvation is a free gift that we freely accept. (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8). 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved.

Kenneth Wuest paraphrases the last half of 1Co 9:27 as "I myself should be disqualified [from further Christian service]."

Henry Morris writes that "The Greek for "castaway" (adokimos) means literally "disapproved," but it does not suggest being discarded altogether. Paul had just written about losing all rewards but still being saved (1Corinthians 3:15), and he realized that this could become possible even for him. (Defender's Study Bible Online Notes)

W A Criswell observes that "Paul's assurance of salvation (cf. 2Ti 1:12) and his confidence in the security of the believer (cf. Ro 8:30, 31) go hand-in-hand with self-discipline and watchfulness (1Co 10:12). There is no hint of any possible loss of salvation in the text. Paul disciplines himself rigorously so that he will not become "disqualified." This final word is adokimos (Gk.), suggesting the idea of "disapproved." Paul does not fear loss of salvation, but rather loss of his work and influence as a minister of Christ. (Criswell, W A. Believer's Study Bible: New King James Version. 1991. Thomas Nelson)

Everett Harrison writes that "The emphasis in the NT falls rather on self-discipline as the key to dedicated usefulness in the kingdom of God (1Co 9:24-27) (Colossians: Christ All Sufficient. Everyman's Bible Commentary).

Scofield writes that in using adokimos "The apostle is writing of service, not of salvation. He is not expressing fear that he may fail of salvation but of his crown.

Paul does not seem to indicate any insecurity about his position - "Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing." (2 Timothy 4:8).

In 1 Corinthians 9:24, Paul mentions - Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. That doesn't sound like the free gift of eternal life. That sounds like an Olympic race where all run, but only one receives the gold medal. Would this mean that everyone else is disqualified from the race? Silver medal, bronze medal, no medal but finished the race, all disqualified from the race? Of course not!

 

[unclesilas]

People who run to the greek and concordances to explain scripture, or change scripture have the wrong kind of trinity: Father, Son and the bible.
It results in incorrectly dividing the word. No discernment through what you read, you rely on aids, that in reality, if you were correct would show reputable English translations to be utterly unreliable in huge chunks of what is written in them

 

[mailmandan]

Guys check this out. proof of eternal security 100% irrefutable:

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I highlighted the word "I know them" because Jesus KNOWS the sheep. Now this proves sheep will always be sheep:

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There Jesus casts folks into hell and He NEVER knew them, not used to know them.

Did anyone see it like I did?

Amen! John 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin because they were still in their sins.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts. Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain eternal life based on the merits of their works.

*Seeking to obtain salvation by works is not the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21). In John 6:40, we read - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[unclesilas]

Welcome to the world of the internet!!

 

[mailmandan]

People who run to the greek and concordances to explain scripture, or change scripture have the wrong kind of trinity: Father, Son and the bible.
It results in incorrectly dividing the word. No discernment through what you read, you rely on aids, that in reality, if you were correct would show reputable English translations to be utterly unreliable in huge chunks of what is written in them

What do you mean by the "wrong kind of trinity?" Do you believe that there is ONE God in essence/nature who eternally exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Do you believe that JESUS IS GOD?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if you believe in OSAS please read the following

final salvation is not guaranteed by an initial experience of saving faith and grace, this is clearly shown in Rom. 13:11, where we read, "And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed."

Believing brings temporal salvation. Continuing to believe insures final salvation.

How can people say this? Is this not legalism 101? our eternal life is not eternal, it is temporary or conditional,

Even though place after place the bible says

i have been saved..

i have been justified

i have been redeemed

i have been given all things

i will never be lost

No one (not even myself) can snatch us from his hands

I will be raised (not might)

I can go on and on and on, even those who on judgment day are left with ashes to show for their lifes work, they too will be saved, even as theough fire.

Why do people think they have the power to maintain their salvation? You dont believe one minute then stop believing the next, you come to faith because in Gods work you found God to be trustworthy, from that moment on, god proves his trustworthyness. Over and over and over, he is not asking for perfect faith, one man said he believed but asked christ to help him in his unbelief, god healed inspite of his lack of perfect faith, Jesus himself said faith as small as a mustard seed can move a mountain, anyone ever seen a mustard seed?

People who do not believe are called anti chirst, in 1 john. He said plain and simply, those people, who were considered part of the church by its members, who now left in unbelief were never part of the church to begin with. They left to expose the fact they were never of us (never saved)

A person who denies jesus denies him because they do not believe. And he is antichrist.

People lose belief not because god failed them, they lose it because they never had faith (true living) to begin with.

Even the prodigal son continued to believe his father was his father, its why he went back. He KNEW who his father was (as did I the 5 years i was gone)

 

[unclesilas]

Only someone with the wrong kind of trinity could fail to accept what is clearly in the following, and someone who needs to keep convincing themselves they cannot lose their salvation:

The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. Matt13:20&21

What does this tell us? You will never get mature debate with some on the internet

 

[unclesilas]

What do you mean by the "wrong kind of trinity?" Do you believe that there is ONE God in essence/nature who eternally exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Do you believe that JESUS IS GOD?

I believe People in effect have a trinity of Father,, Son and the bible. The Holy Spirit is much ignored and that is why they canot spiritually discern what is written in reputable translations of the bible. They rely on their little grey cells to learn and so go off scurrying away to the greek and concordances to gain what they consider deep understanding of the word. Only one can give you that, and he most certainly does not rely on you reading the greek to teach you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In the context of Paul's words YES......it does not mean lose salvation.....it means to be disqualified or unusable....and as long as you are not honest with the use of the word and context you will continue to peddle deceitful error........

Look at pauls context.

Pauls context is he was teaching to others

He kept his body in submission (worked out his salvation) lest he be disqualified to what?

Teach! It was his greatest fear,

Salvation is not in context period.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

HAHAAAHAAHAA Since I didn't write the KJV bible nor did i write the Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon how could it be my bias, corrupt opinion?

again if you dont like the mail dont get mad at the mailman
is the kjv bible and strongs dictionary corrupt????

They are opinions based on the people who wrote them, as all bibles and commentaries are.

 

[mailmandan]

How can people say this? Is this not legalism 101? our eternal life is not eternal, it is temporary or conditional

Amen! Salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear My voice and some of them don't hear My voice) and I know them, (not some of them I know and some of them I don't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow me and some of them don't follow me) 28 And I give them eternal life, (not some of them I give eternal life and some of them I don't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of my hand and some of them will be snatched out of my hand).

 

[unclesilas]

Another thing with people who have the wrong kind of trinity, they are only capable of having half a bible, maturity is accepting it all, without seeking to do cartwheels with the bits you don't like, or ignoring them.

 

[mailmandan]

I believe People in effect have a trinity of Father,, Son and the bible.

Again, I ask: Do you believe that there is ONE God in essence/nature who eternally exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Do you believe that JESUS IS GOD?

YES or NO.

 

[unclesilas]

But they will always be ok on the internet, likeminded people will always give them the thumbs up

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Any doctrine which offers hope to the backslider that his salvation is assured apart from a personal repentance and return to the Lord is false security.

Any doctrine that puffs themselves up as more worthy that the backslider to enter heaven, and judges other people even though according to the law. They would be condemned themselves along with those backsliders is depending on self and his power to maintain his own salvation and not the power of god to keep them like god promised, is just as dangerous and destructive to God and his character as easy believism which says say this sinners prayer, then your saved, go live your life however you want, you do not have to repent, just say this prayer.

Sorry, but the pharisee pumping his chest about not being like the backslider who left following his teligion is really no different

Lets be th tax collector always, not the pharisee.

 

[unclesilas]

Again, I ask: Do you believe that there is ONE God in essence/nature who eternally exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Do you believe that JESUS IS GOD?

YES or NO.

Apparantly you cannot discern what I have written(no suprise there) Accepting a trinity of Father, Son and the bible simply means relying on your little grey cells to learn, no need to start a debate on trinity(wrong thread anyway)

 

[mailmandan]

Apparantly you cannot discern what I have written(no suprise there) Accepting a trinity of Father, Son and the bible simply means relying on your little grey cells to learn, no need to start a debate on trinity(wrong thread anyway)

Still waiting for an answer of YES or NO.