Not only are we not under the law, we should not try to abide by it.

[jaybird88]

It means that Jesus did not set the Law aside unfulfilled. He fulfilled it perfectly.

If Jesus came and said, "ok, we had a law, but no one was able to keep it, so we're going to abolish it" that would be abolishing the Law. But that's not what He did. HE SUBMITTED HIMSELF TO EVERY PART OF THE LAW, because HE CAME TO FULFILL IT. And FULFILL IT HE DID>

AGAIN, I will repeat. ABOLISHMENT would have been if Jesus had cancelled the Law out without it's fulfillment taking place. But since it was fulfilled perfectly by HIM, it has not been abolished, it has been fulfilled.

Jesus is our perfect substitute. He took our place by fulfilling the just requirements of the Law for us, and He took our place by taking the just punishment of the Law that was due to us, He took it for us.

He took our sins and gave us His Righteousness. Including the righteousness that He accomplished for us by perfectly keeping the Law in His sinless Life.

Very simple, if you bother to take things in their proper context.

it has not been abolished, it has been fulfilled.

and your idea of fulfilled means abolished, in other words its not abolished its abolished??? sorry but it just dont work.

 

[jaybird88]

Addendum to last post

When we say that we have to keep the Law that the Bible clearly teaches was fulfilled by Jesus, it is basically saying that His Work is not sufficient for our salvation and not sufficient for us. If we could be justified by the Law, Paul said, then Christ died in vain. Jaybird, you need to rethink your position and ask God to give you wisdom in this matter and submit to His Word.

when someone teaches the law is not for to be followed its basically saying the example of Jesus is not our example.

 

[Adam4Eve]

when someone teaches the law is not for to be followed its basically saying the example of Jesus is not our example.

Did Jesus follow the law after he was crucified?

When did the new covenant start?

Jesus may have been born a Jew, but would you say he is still Jewish?

 

[TMS]

In other words, people tend to do what they want?

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why it is not possible to follow the law?

Luckily, we're no longer under a curse.

Please take time to understand the difference between the flesh and the Spirit.

In the flesh we can not do anything good, this is human nature, and to try and keep the law in our natural state we will fail.
But.... But we are told that we can put self to death and walk in the Spirit by faith.
Mar_14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
Rom_8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Gal_5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

By faith Jesus walks in me and that Spirit that controls me will not break any laws that God has set in place.
If i try myself i'll fail like the Jews, trying to become obedient to the law in my strenght.
Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

So keep the law by faith which means that you keep it by the power of Christ in you.
Or try yourself and fail.
Or break them because you believe there is no law.

The same Spirit that was in Jesus and enabled Him to overcome the world can be given to us by faith. Jesus obeied the law by that Spirit.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[jaybird88]

Did Jesus follow the law after he was crucified?

Paul imitated Jesus and that was after the crucifixion. historians say the same of James.

When did the new covenant start?

Jesus may have been born a Jew, but would you say he is still Jewish?

i would say at the baptism.
i dont think ones ethnic background should determine how you serve the Most High.

 

[Adam4Eve]

Paul imitated Jesus and that was after the crucifixion. historians say the same of James.


i would say at the baptism.
i dont think ones ethnic background should determine how you serve the Most High.

Don't start again

Think, then respond.
I'm clearly not talking about ethnicity, in this context I'm talking about if you think Jesus (or followers of Jesus) are still under the law.

 

[joseph123]

No, we're not under the Law and breaking the Law won't get you immediately sent to hell. However, we are still to follow the law of the Spirit and this requires turning away from evil (repentance).

If you want to get technical, this was the "spirit" of the Mosaic Law, that is, avoiding evil.

 

[Guojing]

1 Tim 1:9

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Is a Christian a "righteous man"?

 

[jaybird88]

Don't start again

Think, then respond.
I'm clearly not talking about ethnicity, in this context I'm talking about if you think Jesus (or followers of Jesus) are still under the law.

if you dont follow the law you are not following the example of Jesus. sorry there is just no way around this.
your following theology (of man) which has been wrong at times. im following the example of Jesus and that example is law obedience, there is no other example.

another thing you ignore, the new covenant is the law written on our heart. written on the heart does not mean tossed aside. written on the heart means the law is still very much there.

 

[TMS]

Paul imitated Jesus and that was after the crucifixion. historians say the same of James.


i would say at the baptism.
i dont think ones ethnic background should determine how you serve the Most High.

If you are talking about the 10 commandments, there is no evidence to say Jesus did not keep the law after His death and resurrection.
The new covenant started at the death of Jesus.
Jesus was a Jew but that means a few changes from that point.
The shadows and laws that pointed to Jesus no longer needed to be kept.

 

[joseph123]

if you dont follow the law you are not following the example of Jesus. sorry there is just no way around this.
your following theology (of man) which has been wrong at times. im following the example of Jesus and that example is law obedience, there is no other example.

another thing you ignore, the new covenant is the law written on our heart. written on the heart does not mean tossed aside. written on the heart means the law is still very much there.

Following the Law has its merits and is a good thing. However, I think there is important value in looking past the Law. When Jesus fulfilled the Law, he freed us so that we don't have to confine ourselves to the Law but we can follow the Spirit by doing what we know and feel is good and right and avoid what we know and feel is wrong.

A good example is that the Law doesn't cover, say, bribing police officers to get out of tickets (or at least it's hard to find a law that covers this). But it's obvious to all that bribes are wrong. Living according to the Spirit is to focus less attention on laws and ordinances and instead doing what you know is right and not what's wrong (this is in my opinion, anyway). This opens up a different mode of living that's superior to confining yourself to the Mosaic Law.

 

[TMS]

We are free from the consequences of breaking the law. Does that mean we continue to sin because we are under grace

 

[kaylagrl]

"If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant"
Romans 4:14

"Christians are not under the law"
Romans 6:14

"The law brings wrath upon those who follow it"
Romans 4:15

"To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid” "
Galatians 3:1

"The law has nothing to do with faith"
Galatians 3:11-12


Lead a life that God permits, but do not comply with old testament law.

The only people who will have you comply with some parts of old testament law are those who wish to take advantage of you for their own gain (tithing serves as an example).
But as we know...

"The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly"
Galatians 3:10


http://www.phildrysdale.com/2013/10/37-scriptures-that-prove-christians-are-not-under-the-law/

Matthew 23- “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.”

 

[joseph123]

We are free from the consequences of breaking the law. Does that mean we continue to sin because we are under grace

No. This is the mistake in easy-believism. We aren't free from the consequences of sinning. God hates all sin and we're all required to repent from sin. We can stumble, but God expects us to repent.

Breaking the Law is more or less equivalent to doing something evil.

 

[TMS]

Following the Law has its merits and is a good thing. However, I think there is important value in looking past the Law. When Jesus fulfilled the Law, he freed us so that we don't have to confine ourselves to the Law but we can follow the Spirit by doing what we know and feel is good and right and avoid what we know and feel is wrong.

A good example is that the Law doesn't cover, say, bribing police officers to get out of tickets (or at least it's hard to find a law that covers this). But it's obvious to all that bribes are wrong. Living according to the Spirit is to focus less attention on laws and ordinances and instead doing what you know is right and not what's wrong (this is in my opinion, anyway). This opens up a different mode of living that's superior to confining yourself to the Mosaic Law.

The law is what God gave us to point out sin, so that we can understand what right and wrong is. Some what to throw it out and than they don't need to feel guilty.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Jas_4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Take away the law and we don't know what is good. Jesus is our example and He perfectly kept the law.

 

[jaybird88]

No. This is the mistake in easy-believism. We aren't free from the consequences of sinning. God hates all sin and we're all required to repent from sin. We can stumble, but God expects us to repent.

Breaking the Law is more or less equivalent to doing something evil.

but how can one sin when there is no law?

 

[joseph123]

but how can one sin when there is no law?

This is a lot of what the New Testament gets at. Sin is not just breaking the law. Sin is failing to do what's right.

Jesus' fulfillment of the Law allows us to stop looking at the Law and instead start looking at what's right and wrong. When we do what's right, we don't sin.

In fact, you will find that the Law was a guidebook on how to do right and not do what's wrong. That's why Jesus' sacrifice frees us - his sacrifices lets us do right and wrong without memorizing and binding ourselves to 613 ordinances.

 

[Adam4Eve]

This is a lot of what the New Testament gets at. Sin is not just breaking the law. Sin is failing to do what's right.

Jesus' fulfillment of the Law allows us to stop looking at the Law and instead start looking at what's right and wrong. When we do what's right, we don't sin.

In fact, you will find that the Law was a guidebook on how to do right and not do what's wrong. That's why Jesus' sacrifice frees us - his sacrifices lets us do right and wrong without memorizing and binding ourselves to 613 ordinances.

In the context of this thread, you're constantly moving the goalposts and seem to be changing your position almost post by post.

On just the last page you seemed to concede that Christians are no longer under the law.
Then you said that not keeping the law is a bad thing, despite the fact that it has been demonstrated to you that the law was (and is) a curse.

Nothing personal or anything, but you're either a raging schizophrenic or simply genuinely the most inconsistent person I have ever come across on any internet forum.

 

[jaybird88]

This is a lot of what the New Testament gets at. Sin is not just breaking the law. Sin is failing to do what's right.

Jesus' fulfillment of the Law allows us to stop looking at the Law and instead start looking at what's right and wrong. When we do what's right, we don't sin.

In fact, you will find that the Law was a guidebook on how to do right and not do what's wrong. That's why Jesus' sacrifice frees us - his sacrifices lets us do right and wrong without memorizing and binding ourselves to 613 ordinances.

so now its man and not the Most High who determines what is sin and what is not?

 

[jaybird88]

In the context of this thread, you're constantly moving the goalposts and seem to be changing your position almost post by post.

On just the last page you seemed to concede that Christians are no longer under the law.
Then you said that not keeping the law is a bad thing, despite the fact that it has been demonstrated to you that the law was (and is) a curse.

Nothing personal or anything, but you're either a raging schizophrenic or simply genuinely the most inconsistent person I have ever come across on any internet forum.

the law is a curse, did Jesus get cursed for obeying it?