Water Baptism-What Does God's Word Say?

[djdearing]

1 Corinthians 13:1-14:1
a Prophecies, tongues, knowledge and the other gifts will pass away when the perfect comes (that is, when Yeshua returns; but see last part of 12:8-10). There will be no need then for such gifts; they are for this world only, but what lasts on into the next, says Sha’ul, following a common rabbinic pattern of comparing the two worlds, is trust (faith), hope and love. These are all inner spiritual qualities, but because love is an inner state that results in outward action, the greatest of them is love. For this reason, his final advice on the matter is, “Pursue love.”
(from Jewish New Testament Commentary Copyright © 1992 by David H. Stern. All rights reserved. Used by permission.)

1 Corinthians 13:8-13
He takes occasion hence to show how much better it will be with the church hereafter than it can be here. A state of perfection is in view (v. 10): When that which is perfect shall come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When the end is once attained, the means will of course be abolished. There will be no need of tongues, and prophecy, and inspired knowledge, in a future life, because then the church will be in a state of perfection, complete both in knowledge and holiness. God will be known then clearly, and in a manner by intuition, and as perfectly as the capacity of glorified minds will allow; not by such transient glimpses, and little portions, as here. The difference between these two states is here pointed at in two particulars: 1. The present state is a state of childhood, the future that of manhood: When I was a child, I spoke as a child (that is, as some think, spoke with tongues), I understood as a child;
ephronoun
—sapiebam (that is, "I prophesied, I was taught the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, in such an extraordinary way as manifested I was not out of my childish state"), I thought, or reasoned,
elogizomen,
as a child; but, when I became a man, I put away childish things. Such is the difference between earth and heaven. What narrow views, what confused and indistinct notions of things, have children, in comparison of grown men! And how naturally do men, when reason is ripened and matured, despise and relinquish their infant thoughts, put them away, reject them, esteem as nothing! Thus shall we think of our most valued gifts and acquisitions in this world, when we come to heaven.
(from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible, PC Study Bible Formatted Electronic Database Copyright © 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All Rights reserved.)

Here's why I disagree. I'm not sure of any instance where Jesus is referred to in the neuter gender, "that which is perfect". I said before that which is complete is in direct contrast to that which is in part, "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part" Paul said. Sure, we will know even more than we do now in heaven, but I don't think that's what Paul is getting at. The 1st century church had zero New Testament scriptures. We just recently in last few hundred years were able to mass copy and distribute them by means of the printing press. That being said we aren't looking to prophets to explain what's going on today because God's words have been breathed through his apostles and prophets for us to be fully equipped!

It actually seems quite silly to think that Paul would be referring to our future state when it's obvious there's no need for the gifts then. He's trying to get these carnal Corinthians to understand these things are "childish" in that they won't be needed for much longer.

Notice what Paul says here, "AND NOW abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." He doesn't say AND THEN abides faith, hope, and love does he? No, because listen to this, when Jesus comes back our FAITH BECOMES SIGHT and OUR HOPE IS REALIZED. And the greatest of these is charity, why? Because Love lasts FOREVER.

 

[Sketch]

If Jesus meant to water baptize saying "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" why did the apostles always water baptize saying I baptize you in the name of the Lord Jesus?

You have no proof of that.

But you do have proof of what Jesus commanded.
We should go with that.

 

[djdearing]

You have no proof of that.

But you do have proof of what Jesus commanded.
We should go with that.

You have no proof of that.

But you do have proof of what Jesus commanded.
We should go with that.

Sorry to butt in, but can I just add this is not about some baptismal formula. "In the name" is in reference to authority. Who's authority? The Godhead. There's no mistaking the Lord Jesus Christ is God in the flesh.

 

[Sketch]

The trinity was developed by Roman leaders at the Nicene Council in 325 a.d.

Seriously?

No one believed in God the Father prior to that?
No one believed in God the Son prior to that?
No one believed in God the Holy Spirit prior to that?
The Catholic Church "invented" the Trinity?

 

[Sketch]

Sorry to butt in, but can I just add this is not about some baptismal formula. "In the name" is in reference to authority. Who's authority? The Godhead. There's no mistaking the Lord Jesus Christ is God in the flesh.

I'm not the one who introduced the word "formula" to this discussion.

 

[djdearing]

I'm not the one who introduced the word "formula" to this discussion.

As far as I'm concerned, speaking against the triune nature of the Godhead is grounds for removal, but I'm not the admin.

 

[oldethennew]

my wife and I want to be in the line of believers that can say,
we want to be like Jesus in every way that we can, and do
what the scriptures say that He did while living-out His
ministry - I say this because of how much we
Love and Adore Him -
He if rode a white horse into hell, we would like to go
with Him to the battle!!!

 

[Sketch]

As far as I'm concerned, speaking against the triune nature of the Godhead is grounds for removal, but I'm not the admin.

Yes. I seemed to be getting an anti-trinitarian position from some of the posters on this topic.
The baptism command of Jesus seemed to be a hot button with them.

 

[Wansvic]

As far as I'm concerned, speaking against the triune nature of the Godhead is grounds for removal, but I'm not the admin.

I am not speaking against the Godhead.

 

[Wansvic]

Yes. I seemed to be getting an anti-trinitarian position from some of the posters on this topic.
The baptism command of Jesus seemed to be a hot button with them.

In Jesus dwells all of the fulness of the Godhead bodily:

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Col 2:8-12

 

[djdearing]

I am not speaking against the Godhead.

Please explain yourself then sir. The Godhead is most certainly triune. If you deny that we are done here.


Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

2 Corinthians 13:14 - The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen. ([The second [epistle] to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, [a city] of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.])

Matthew 3:16-17 - And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

1 Corinthians 8:6 - But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 1:1-51 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 14:16-17 - And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 John 5:7-8 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Ephesians 4:4-6 - [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Philippians 2:5-8 - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 2:9 - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

John 15:26 - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Colossians 1:15-17 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

John 10:30-36 - I and [my] Father are one.

 

[Sketch]

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men...

Are you claiming that a triune godhead is "the tradition of men"?

 

[Wansvic]

Sorry to butt in, but can I just add this is not about some baptismal formula. "In the name" is in reference to authority. Who's authority? The Godhead. There's no mistaking the Lord Jesus Christ is God in the flesh.

My point has always been that one can see exactly how the apostles water baptized by what is in the Word. There is no record of anyone being water baptized using the phrase "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." That must certainly point to something because the Word says:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Tim 3:16-17

 

[Wansvic]

Please explain yourself then sir. The Godhead is most certainly triune. If you deny that we are done here.


Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

2 Corinthians 13:14 - The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen. ([The second [epistle] to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, [a city] of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.])

Matthew 3:16-17 - And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

1 Corinthians 8:6 - But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 1:1-51 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 14:16-17 - And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 John 5:7-8 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Ephesians 4:4-6 - [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Philippians 2:5-8 - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 2:9 - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

John 15:26 - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Colossians 1:15-17 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

John 10:30-36 - I and [my] Father are one.

Yep, that's bible.

 

[Wansvic]

Are you claiming that a triune godhead is "the tradition of men"?

Don't pick apart my post. I posted the scripture concerning that in Jesus dwells all of the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

 

[Sketch]

My point has always been that one can see exactly how the apostles water baptized by what is in the Word. There is no record of anyone being water baptized using the phrase "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." That must certainly point to something...

You have failed to produce the particulars of any NT baptism. All we have for sure is the command of Jesus which you refuse to accept for some reason. (anti-trinitarian?)

 

[Sketch]

Don't pick apart my post. I posted the scripture concerning that in Jesus dwells all of the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Are you claiming that the Father and the Holy Spirit are not a part of the godhead?
Or perhaps that the Holy Spirit is not a part of the godhead?

 

[Sketch]

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit...

Are you claiming that trinitarianism is "philosophy and vain deceit"?

 

[Blik]

My point has always been that one can see exactly how the apostles water baptized by what is in the Word. There is no record of anyone being water baptized using the phrase "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." That must certainly point to something because the Word says:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Tim 3:16-17

To read scripture, accept scripture, and let it teach you what God is teaching, we read what it says, not what it doesn't say.

In the OT men were told to perform physical acts that were a symbol of spiritual truths they did not understand, yet they did them. That is faith. There is a connection between the physical and the spiritual, as is true of all the Hebrew thought and language. When we give to people needing help we are acting out love, there is a spiritual happening as well as the physical. When we speak of things that harm others, there is not only the harm we are doing but we are harming ourselves spirituallly.

In the same way, when we obey the Lord in regard to baptism with water we are doing a physical act that has profound spiritual happenings in many ways.

 

[Sketch]

To read scripture, accept scripture, and let it teach you what God is teaching, we read what it says, not what it doesn't say.

Exactly!