Hell!

[p_rehbein]

It also is said in Isaiah 1:18 - "Come now, and let us reason together...".

Yeah, BUT both parties MUST be reasonable people............

toss in a wing nut, and reason flies out da window

 

[Zmouth]

God's Word indicates that "Sheol," or "Hades," refers to something much more than even a large mass grave. For instance, Isaiah5 :14 notes that the Grave, or Sheol,"Has enlarged itself and has opened its mouth wide without limit." Although Sheol has already swallowed, so to speak, countless dead people, it always seems to hunger for more. (Proverbs 30:15,16) Unlike any literal burial site, which can hold only a limited number of t he dead, 'the Grave is never satisfied,' (Proverbs 27:20)

When man reads the Bible in order to hear the word of God it is obvious that he doesn't know that he doesn't know. Of course I need not tell you what they don't know since what they don't know is written within the scriptures.

Yet as written in Proverbs 29:18, "Where there is no vision, the people perish:" Thus as written in "by hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:"

"And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;" Gen 4:11

Thus, it written "my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

That is, Sheol never becomes full. It had no limits. Sheol, or Hades, is thus, not a literal place in a specific location. Rather, it is the common grave of dead mankind, the figurative location where most of mankind sleep in death.

So if Sheol, or Hades is not a lilteral place in a specific location then what is the destination for those who trust in their own imagination. Any idea why it is better to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to be cast into hell with two?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

In my humble opinion a person accepts what Jesus proclaimed, not accepts Jesus himself. It was the ransom sacrifice of Jesus that allows mankind to be forgiven for Adam's Sins: "Through Adam, sin entered into the world and through sin, death."
This ransom sacrifice was offered by God, the creator of all things, including Jesus. So, it is God almighty that we offer ourselves to and signify this by water baptism as Jesus did and all those that follow him.

Now, a child, at birth covered by the Ransom Sacrifice, a sacrifice that was given for the sake of all man's sins, even newborn babies. It is later in life (Jesus was 30 when he dedicated his life to his God and Heavenly father) that a person carries out this act of dedication to God Almighty.

well, I do hope you will at least acknowledge that one day every knee will bend and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord...that means of all creation...all means all

you quote a few verses but do not put the references

what you state is not biblical, so unless you wish to state that you have received a new version of the Bible from some spiritual being and lay claim to a new order, understand that no one is already born saved

did you somehow miss the part where Jesus stayed behind in the temple while his parents searched for Him and when they finally went back, very worried, He told them He had to be about His Father's business?

seems you may not believe in the virgin birth either

so, I did a little research

are you the same marakorpa that was banned in another forum for promoting Jehovah's Witnesses?

here is a post by you from that forum

Post 355: Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:40 am

Like this post (1): onewithhim
The thought that there could be only one religion that knows the Truth is very confronting for many people. I admit that others could think that the ones that say they have the truth are arrogant and self centered.

But would you have said that back in the time of Jesus's ministry on earth, didn't Jesus give the only hope for mankind to be saved via one belief, that belief was fully explained in the Bible, and all other beliefs were condemned by Jesus and the apostles, and that condemnation is in the Bible for anyone to read.

One of the things that the Bible says about the truth is that is in unity with itself and the ones practicing this truth are in unity with each other on a loving and understanding way. Does this happen in Christendom? There is 242 different catholic denominations, and even in the local congregations there is some dissent at some of the teachings, in other words, there is little unity, and this applies to most of the religions of the world.

This lack of unity goes even further and is exacerbated by various local rites and pagan rituals being allowed under the umbrella of many so called Christian religions, this is not unity, is it?

Other matters of Christian origin are lost in Christendom and tradition is favored over scripture. Christendom bows to the masses instead of the clergy sticking to Bible principles and not budging because of local pressure as they do these days.

I will now say this: There are about 8 million dedicated JWs in the world, and many more who are studying the Bible with brothers and sisters.

You are not considered a JW until you are going out witnessing and are baptized, it is not like other religions where you are baptized as a baby with a splash of water on the head and then forevermore considered to be of that religion.

The entire world wide organization is unified, and a JW can go from one country to another and they will be up to date on the lessons, talks, ministery schools and all the information will be exactly the same as it is at home, maybe in a different language but still the same.

They are, at lest, Unified.

here is the source

if I should not post a link to this other forum, the mods can remove it. not sure if it is ok or not, but the fact remains, seems we have a JW trying to convince us that Christianity is not correct. the sp mistakes are all markorpa's

actually unless there are a dozen marakorpa's let loose on the net, you have been quite busy...evangelizing as a JW

 

[marakorpa]

It also is said in Isaiah 1:18 - "Come now, and let us reason together...".

So, with all the discussion on the word Hell from scholastic clergy throughout the world people who know the true meaning of Hades and Sheol that man has transferred into hellfire and torment to capture the poor to the churches of Christendom, you still believe that there is this physical place...Sad, so sad! From the dust, you were made and to the dust, you will return. God did not create mankind with this elusive soul that is to be tormented in this elusive Hell or to be transported to the Heavenly Realm. The angels are not immortal, Satan is not immortal, Jesus was not immortal until he ascended to the Heavenly Realm after his execution by the Jews on the torture stake. And mankind is certainly not immortal.
If you can only realise that much, you will understand what it is that God wants of us.

 

[HeraldandSojourner]

Marakorpa,

If you slap me in the face, I may turn the other cheek and forgive you. If you drive over the speed limit, a police officer may give you a ticket. If you harm the police officer, you will be charged with assault. If you harm the judge at your court hearing, you will be charged with obstruction of justice. If you try to harm the president of the United States, you may either be shot by the secret services or serve a prison sentence. Why is that? Let’s say in those cases mentioned where you tried to harm government officials or magistrates all you did was slap them in the face as you did to me, why is the crime and the penalty different when you did the same thing to each of us? The dignity of the party offended determines the seriousness of a crime committed against them. God, the I Am Who I Am, is infinite in all honor, glory, and dignity that the punishment is most fitting to the equal extent. When you commit the smallest lie, you obstructed the justice of Almighty God who is the most intolerant of evil. If harming the rights of another human being is punishable under the law, how much more the one who created humanity and justice?

Since sin is the transgression of the righteous law of God, and the failure to measure up to its perfect standard, it deserves to be seriously punished. Jesus called that eternal state and place the Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna), our English bibles translate the words into “hell.” Why did he call it that? In the Old Testament era, the Valley of Hinnom was located outside of the city of Jerusalem, and it was the place where people burned their children to pagan deities. In Jesus’ day, it was by then considered accursed and descreted, and became the place where the people burned trash and dung. What a description he gave us! The parallel is that we are so guilty and corrupt that we stand before God as an abomination that deserves to be devoted to everlasting destruction, in the “fire that does not quench.” Fire is a strong metaphorical description that illustrates how horrific to the imagination the experience of that punishment will be. We cannot at the moment comprehend the depth of it. In other places, it is described as outer darkness and gloom to illustrate other aspects of that eternal state. Jesus said that there people will be weeping and gnashing their teeth at him, to show that even there people will throw their fist in anger at God.

What is amazing is that we read that Jesus suffered under the righteous wrath of God to cover the penalty that our sin deserves at Golgotha, just outside of Jerusalem. He suffered not just mere nails through his hands and feet, but he experienced the very outpouring of God’s justice toward sin while on the cross that we may be redeemed from the law’s demands. Through his resurrection and by his intercession in heaven with his precious blood, we can be forgiven in him for what he did on behalf of sinners like me and you, if we turn from our rebellion and rest our trust in his salvation alone to reconcile us to God. He even promises to impute that perfect righteousness that Jesus Christ earned as the reward of his work to all those who believe in him, justifying you as righteous independent of anything you have done, but for all that he did on your behalf. Repent and believe, friend.

 

[marakorpa]

When man reads the Bible in order to hear the word of God it is obvious that he doesn't know that he doesn't know. Of course I need not tell you what they don't know since what they don't know is written within the scriptures.

Yet as written in Proverbs 29:18, "Where there is no vision, the people perish:" Thus as written in "by hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:"

"And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;" Gen 4:11

Thus, it written "my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."



So if Sheol, or Hades is not a literal place in a specific location then what is the destination for those who trust in their own imagination. Any idea why it is better to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to be cast into hell with two?

Please search out the true translations of Sheol, Hades and Hell. We die, we are buried and as Solomon said :

...The dead know nothing at all. the dead can neither love nor hate and that there is no work or planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the grave.

Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10. In Psalms 146:4 we find When a man dies "His thoughts perish"

We are mortal and do not survive the death of our body. The life we enjoy is like the flame of a candle. When the flame goes out or is put out, it does not go anywhere, it is simply gone.

 

[Zmouth]

Please search out the true translations of Sheol, Hades and Hell. We die, we are buried and as Solomon said :

...The dead know nothing at all. the dead can neither love nor hate and that there is no work or planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the grave.

The verse is:
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Eccl 9:5

Since you left off the premise for it being said that the dead know not anything, how do the living know they shall die if they don't know the reason why?

We are mortal and do not survive the death of our body. The life we enjoy is like the flame of a candle. When the flame goes out or is put out, it does not go anywhere, it is simply gone.

While I feel that I understand your argument, being that man has a beginning of life therefore he is not eternal since the eternal can not be created nor does the eternal have a beginning since it has always existed.

Moreover, any living thing which is not eternal would not exist without end since only the eternal can be perceived as having a perpetual existence without end. The reason I say perceived is due to the fact that we have not seen that it will always exist because that has yet to happen, yet by hearing the precepts for the principle of eternal we understand that they have held true without exception to this point of time, we therefore can postulate that they will continue to hold true and thus the principle of eternal demonstrates it will exist without end.

Thus the final point being that it is written in the scriptures [see Eccl 3:1-2] To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die;

So is there another reason not mentioned that you believe that the soul doesn't survive the days in the flesh?

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Hell is real, lots of scripture speaks of hell.
The 23 minutes guy is well meaning, (hopefully), but his cartoonish description only serves to cast doubt. It sounds like mythology.
I wish people would let scripture speak for itself, and not try to "help God". His spicy pizza dream made him millions but it is just what it is, and that is grade AAA horse biscuits.

 

[Adstar]

I have wondered who it was that created this Hell that a lot of clergies try to frighten the congregations with. Hell and eternal torment have been a great tool for the churches over the years, especially during the 'Dark Ages' when people that refused to obey the church were put to death and sent to Hell....or were they?

Considering that the Almighty God was the only one that could create anything, it must have been him that created this terrible place of torment and torture, and as Adam and Eve were the last of his creations, our long-suffering and loving God must have created this Hell with malicious intent.

No! No! I can't accept that, I can't accept that God would want to hand over his human creations, no matter what was in store for them, to Satan, his adversary, and not only to hand them over but to create a place where the one that made a challenge against His supremacy, could keep the baddies as a trophy room for all his successes in tempting the weak and willful.

This also raises the thought on an immortal soul: If there is no Hell, and God didn't create man to live for a time and then kill them off to crowd out the Heavenly Realm, which he already had filled with myriads of angels, why did anyone want an immortal soul?

Gee! Sorry if I trod on anyone's toes. No I'm Not, I wuz jist kiddin'!!!!!

You have a very catholic view of hell...

Firstly satan is not in Hell and has never been in Hell and never will be in Hell..

satans eternal destination is the Eternal Lake of Fire.. When satan is cast into the Eternal lake of fire He will be in just as much torment there as anyone else who ends up there..

Revelation 20: KJV
10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Hell is not the eternal lake of fire.. At the time of the final judgement Hell will be cast into the eternal lake of fire..

Revelation 20: KJV
13 "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. {14} And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. {15} And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

 

[marakorpa]

The verse is:
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Eccl 9:5

Since you left off the premise for it being said that the dead know not anything, how do the living know they shall die if they don't know the reason why?

Sorry! I have missed this 'question, is it?



While I feel that I understand your argument, being that man has a beginning of life therefore he is not eternal since the eternal can not be created nor does the eternal have a beginning since it has always existed.

Moreover, any living thing which is not eternal would not exist without end since only the eternal can be perceived as having a perpetual existence without end. The reason I say perceived is due to the fact that we have not seen that it will always exist because that has yet to happen, yet by hearing the precepts for the principle of eternal we understand that they have held true without exception to this point of time, we therefore can postulate that they will continue to hold true and thus the principle of eternal demonstrates it will exist without end.

Thus the final point being that it is written in the scriptures [see Eccl 3:1-2] To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die;

So is there another reason not mentioned that you believe that the soul doesn't survive the days in the flesh?

 

[bygrace]

I have wondered who it was that created this Hell that a lot of clergies try to frighten the congregations with. Hell and eternal torment have been a great tool for the churches over the years, especially during the 'Dark Ages' when people that refused to obey the church were put to death and sent to Hell....or were they?

Considering that the Almighty God was the only one that could create anything, it must have been him that created this terrible place of torment and torture, and as Adam and Eve were the last of his creations, our long-suffering and loving God must have created this Hell with malicious intent.

No! No! I can't accept that, I can't accept that God would want to hand over his human creations, no matter what was in store for them, to Satan, his adversary, and not only to hand them over but to create a place where the one that made a challenge against His supremacy, could keep the baddies as a trophy room for all his successes in tempting the weak and willful.

This also raises the thought on an immortal soul: If there is no Hell, and God didn't create man to live for a time and then kill them off to crowd out the Heavenly Realm, which he already had filled with myriads of angels, why did anyone want an immortal soul?

Gee! Sorry if I trod on anyone's toes. No I'm Not, I wuz jist kiddin'!!!!!

God made hell and man choose to go there.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Please search out the true translations of Sheol, Hades and Hell. We die, we are buried and as Solomon said :

...The dead know nothing at all. the dead can neither love nor hate and that there is no work or planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the grave.

Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10. In Psalms 146:4 we find When a man dies "His thoughts perish"

We are mortal and do not survive the death of our body. The life we enjoy is like the flame of a candle. When the flame goes out or is put out, it does not go anywhere, it is simply gone.

No heaven either..?

 

[marakorpa]

You have a very catholic view of hell...

Firstly satan is not in Hell and has never been in Hell and never will be in Hell..

I agree

satans eternal destination is the Eternal Lake of Fire.. When satan is cast into the Eternal lake of fire He will be in just as much torment there as anyone else who ends up there..

What a Hell of a place to be in, however, the lake of fire could be a reference to Gehenna, that place where dead criminals and dogs were cast, outside the city walls. The eternal burning destruction of the contents of Gehenna is a good example of the total destruction of Satan and his wicked angels, don't you think?




Revelation 20: KJV
10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Hell is not the eternal lake of fire.. At the time of the final judgement Hell will be cast into the eternal lake of fire..

Revelation 20: KJV
13 "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. {14} And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. {15} And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

How can death and hell give up, deliver up, the dead, which were in them?

Note: when hell is found in lower case it means the common grave of man, when it has an uppercase H it denotes a particular grave. This is from Greek grammar Hades and Hebrew Sheol.

No heaven either..?

I was looking for this comment about there being no heaven either, which is not entirely accurate, as there is a heavenly Realm full of angels, God and his only begotten son whom, we know as Jesus. As far as the dead going to heaven there is no indication that this will happen except for the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class mentioned in Revelation.

God created man and gave them the instruction to "Go forth and multiply and become many to fill the earth...Not to breed for a while then He would kill them off and take them to Heaven.

 

[marakorpa]

Saying that I have a very Catholic view of Hell brings me to the point of the matter of Truth. There can only be one Truth on any subject. it is ludicrous to think that there can be part truths, many truths on the one subject and the Truth that God's Word explains.

The Roman Catholic Church invented Hell as a place that unbelievers would end up in if they did not obey the Catholic Clergy...and look where that ended up! We may ask, How much Truth is in the Catholic creed, which has about 240 different versions.

However, the Catholic Church invented Hell, so its version is the one that many consider the truth.

 

[Zmouth]

Sorry! I have missed this 'question, is it?

Not if you don't know why...

There can only be one Truth on any subject. it is ludicrous to think that there can be part truths, many truths on the one subject and the Truth that God's Word explains.

So on the subject of math, what two numbers when added together = 10?

So on the subject of colors, what is the most beautiful color in the world?

So if the objective truth and the subjective truth don't have to be absolutes, then if the word of God is absolute;
then how do you receive the truth?, by the word of God you believe is the truth or by the word of men that you know is the truth?

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. [1 Thess 2:13]

 

[marakorpa]

Not if you don't know why...



So on the subject of math, what two numbers when added together = 10?

The Truth here is the number 10, 10 being the Truth you are seeking. The numbers you use to get 10 when added together is the method of seeking Truth.

So on the subject of colors, what is the most beautiful color in the world?

Are colours beautiful to the blind, and is colour beautiful if it cannot be seen. As mentally numbing as your question.

Could God build a rock that big he couldn't lift it? another from the scrapbook of Atheists.



So if the objective truth and the subjective truth don't have to be absolutes, then if the word of God is absolute;
then how do you receive the truth?, by the word of God you believe is the truth or by the word of men that you know is the truth?

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. [1 Thess 2:13]

 

[carl11]

I was looking for this comment about there being no heaven either, which is not entirely accurate, as there is a heavenly Realm full of angels, God and his only begotten son whom, we know as Jesus. As far as the dead going to heaven there is no indication that this will happen except for the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class mentioned in Revelation.

God created man and gave them the instruction to "Go forth and multiply and become many to fill the earth...Not to breed for a while then He would kill them off and take them to Heaven.

The Bible that most people use does not even remotely use the phrase “Discreet and Slave Class” unless you have a NWT and if I’m not mistaken it does not even use that phrase either. I would be calling this propaganda.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Roman Catholic Church invented Hell...

They invented *Purgatory*. Kindly get your facts straight.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

How can death and hell give up, deliver up, the dead, which were in them?

Note: when hell is found in lower case it means the common grave of man, when it has an uppercase H it denotes a particular grave. This is from Greek grammar Hades and Hebrew Sheol.


I was looking for this comment about there being no heaven either, which is not entirely accurate, as there is a heavenly Realm full of angels, God and his only begotten son whom, we know as Jesus. As far as the dead going to heaven there is no indication that this will happen except for the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class mentioned in Revelation.

God created man and gave them the instruction to "Go forth and multiply and become many to fill the earth...Not to breed for a while then He would kill them off and take them to Heaven.

So you clearly haven't read the bible

 

[Zmouth]

As mentally numbing as your question.

LOL, might be that it was already numb, the question just merely awoke your consciousness to it's current state as evident by the lack of response to the question on how you receive the truth.

It is difficult to answer a question which we didn't know that we didn't even know about the subject until we were asked. And once asked, we then know that we didn't know. making it difficult to answer since we now know we don't know the answer.

While there is hope for those who acknowledge that they don't know the answer, since they at least have the knowledge they don't know can began to get what they lack since faith comes by hearing.

Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding .Prov 4:7

Yet what hope does a person who lacks knowledge if they don't know that they don't know unless they hear, much less consider what they don't believe could be true unless they come to the knowledge of the principle which hold the ever lasting truth.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: Hos 4:6

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; Proverb 23:23