Not By Works

[BillG]

Here is my experience of how I was born again. I came to an END of myself, of living my own life MY WAY, when my wife of only 6 months demanded a divorce, because I could not earn enough money. I meant my Vows, and she did not. I also know that GOD does not approve of divorce. I went into DEEP depression that last week of 1977. I did not want to live another day, so during that week I attempted Suicide three times. AFTER THE THIRD ATTEMPT SOMETHING IN ME BROKE. (Which I now think it was the pride of living my Life my own way.) TREMENDOUS GUILT over my WHOLE LIFESTYLE washed over me, WAVE after WAVE after WAVE. I was instantly brought to my knees, and was crying and sobbing like a baby. During that intensity of that moment I said a prayer that no man had ever taught me.

"FORGIVE ME! FORGIVE ME! Lord if you have a purpose for my life, you will have to come in and run my life, because I CAN'T DO IT."

That is as close to it as I can get in my old age, but IT was a COMPLETE Surrender to Jesus Christ, for the rest of my life. That was the night of Dec. 30, 1977, but it was about 4:30 in the morning, so it was early morning Dec.31, 1977. Those waves of GRIEF over my UTTER SINFULNESS DID NOT STOP. And I kept repeating: FORGIVE ME! FORGIVE ME! I fell to a prostrate position, face down. It must have been at least 45 minutes later, THEN something else happened to me, that I have been reluctant to tell very many people about. I don't remember falling asleep, or GOD gave me a Vision, I really cannot tell, but if it was a DREAM it was the most VIVID DREAM THAT I EVER HAD. I was literally at the foot of the Cross on my knees reaching up to him, still crying out, FORGIVE ME! FORGIVE ME! And I noticed that the Nails were through his Wrists, {and it was YEARS later that I learned that the Jews considered the Wrists to be part of the hands}. Then I saw the blood from those nails fall, and splash in my forearms, and I was amazed that I could feel the warmth of that blood.

That is where the Vision or Dream ended, but I knew HE HAD FORGIVEN me totally.

Now I must ask, HOW IS THAT NOTHING BUT 100% GOD bringing me TOO HIM ? ? ?

Thanks for your testimony.
God is good.

My ancestry is of Muslim heritage.
I was dedicated to allah.

My mum never really bought me up as a Muslim but Jesus was a prophet and nothing more.

I came to believe in Jesus when I watched Jesus of Nazareth when I was about 7.
I actually believed he was the son of God who died and rose again, not only that but for me.

I remember watching the beating, him hanging on the cross, saying Father forgive them then him saying "It is finished" and seeing the temple curtain torn in two.

I thought to I myself "Wow this is real, he is real, he died and rose again"

I didn't fully understand the implication for me or my life as we never went to church at the time.

But I do remember that not so long after that I got involved in the youth of a little church nearby which I wanted to go to, as did my two younger brothers.

My mum moved and I was devastated.

However the next place we moved to somehow I went to another church.
She moved again.

My brothers joined the Boys Brigade but I did not.
One of the leaders came to our house to see if I wanted to come along.
I said yes.
On Sundays they had Bible class.

My mum then moved back to Scotland.
I was devestated again.
But I sought out a church.
Six months after moving I was aloud to back to where we used to live as a Christmas present.

I went to the house of the leader who came to see me.
During that period unbeknownst to me my mum called them and said "I don't want him back you can have him or put him in a home"

They told me this a few days before I was going back to Scotland.

So they fostered me.

But it got worse.

For the next 4-5 years my foster dad sexually abused me.

Eventually I went to college.
When I did I had no interest in seeking out church.
Through circumstances I found myself in a Baptist church.
But boy was I a mixed up cookie.
I got engaged to a girl I did not want to marry but broke it off before we did.
Sat in church thinking "Ok we will get married, have a couple of kids, get divorced and I can see them at weekends"

All of a sudden it was like someone had taken a knife, ripped open my stomach and put a gazillion butterflies in my stomach.

The anxiety was so so bad (which I still struggle with)
Anyway I broke it off.
Gave up my job.
Went to live with a friend miles and miles away.
I gave up on church as did my friend.
I really did a prodical son but not asking the Father for my inheritance.
After all I already had it.
It was the inheritance of my past and what a shit inheritance.

Anyway found myself as a result of my mate going to it because he fancied a girl.

To finish this.

I'm happily married, to the most beautiful amazing woman, 4 amazing kids.
They love Jesus and all walk in their own faith.

I now help others and walk with them.
Broken hurt people like me.

I do remember praying one day "God I'm so sorry I ran away from you"

He replied "I knew where you were going to but I had prepared that place for you to go to, I actually led you down that path"

Do you know what.
My two brothers had the early experience as I did concerning Jesus.
They have rejected the claims.
Been married and divorced, fathered children outside off marriage.
My mum was married and divorced 4 times.
She fell pregnant with me brute before marriage to a Catholic.
In fact she was on the abortion table with me but at the last minute said no.
She was condemned by her dad a shame on the family.
The very man who lifted me up to Allah also rejected me.

But praise God.
I have been married 25 years soon, God is using me.
Praise God even more, and I have tears in my eyes.

My mum no longer believes Jesus is just a prophet.
To her he is the Son of God who died and rose again her.
She doesn't go to church much because she is hard of hearing.
She doesn't get the bus big words and theology.
But she is happy to tell her friends about Jesus and sit on a park bench taking to people about Jesus.

Every place I've been moved and myself moved to God has always seemed to be there.

Is that election in action.
I often wonder about my brothers.
Is that non election?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My point was simply that, while yes, we are dead in our trespasses and sins, God revives (draws) us enough to make our free will choice between eternal life through Christ, or the second death.

If we don't have that choice, it made no sense for Jesus to pay for the sins of the whole world. We would also have to accept that God chooses some people (including children) to go to hell, and there is nothing they can do about it. No mercy, no redemption, no pardon whatsoever. Also, how would one know they are one of the saved? By good works? How do you know you won't stop doing good works one day? There would be no assurance. We actually couldn't know we have eternal life, as 1 John 5:13 says we will.

Also, it makes no sense for Jesus to command us to share the gospel with all the world. Those chosen to be saved, will be saved, no matter if they hear the gospel or not. The choice has already been made for them.

Amen,

I was just talking about your comment on God hardening pharoah. What does that mean, when we find out. It is eye opening

 

[Budman]

Amen,

I was just talking about your comment on God hardening pharoah. What does that mean, when we find out. It is eye opening

This is one of the best explanations I've read: Why Did God Harden Pharaoh's Heart?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is one of the best explanations I've read: Why Did God Harden Pharaoh's Heart?

Lol. Thanks bro.
That is not what I meant though..lol

Harden, what does it mean?

 

[Budman]

Lol. Thanks bro.
That is not what I meant though..lol

Harden, what does it mean?

In the context of the story, I'll go with this definition: "Make or become more severe and less sympathetic."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In the context of the story, I'll go with this definition: "Make or become more severe and less sympathetic."

The hebrew means to be strong, to strengthen to harden. To grow firm, to have courage.

Taken this as a defenition. What did God do to Pharaoh? And what did Pharoah do when he hardened his own heart (And yes this blew my mind)

 

[Budman]

The hebrew means to be strong, to strengthen to harden. To grow firm, to have courage.

Taken this as a defenition. What did God do to Pharaoh? And what did Pharoah do when he hardened his own heart (And yes this blew my mind)

TELL ME!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

TELL ME!

God did not force Pharoah to do what he did

GOD gave PHAROAH strength to do what PHAROAH wanted to do in the first place.. Thats why every step Pharoah showed more COURAGE (hardnened his heart) and was able even after alll the proof that God was more powerful, He continued to do what God needed him to do. God did not have to convince him, PHAROAH was convinced on his own, God just strengthenes his confidence

God hardens people hearts by placing truth in front of them, The more they DENY truth, and refuse to believe that truth, the STRONGER they are in their unbelief.

God speaks of giving the truth so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not hear. This is hardening a nation or a people.

 

[Budman]

God did not force Pharoah to do what he did

GOD gave PHAROAH strength to do what PHAROAH wanted to do in the first place.. Thats why every step Pharoah showed more COURAGE (hardnened his heart) and was able even after alll the proof that God was more powerful, He continued to do what God needed him to do. God did not have to convince him, PHAROAH was convinced on his own, God just strengthenes his confidence

God hardens people hearts by placing truth in front of them, The more they DENY truth, and refuse to believe that truth, the STRONGER they are in their unbelief.

God speaks of giving the truth so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not hear. This is hardening a nation or a people.

Wow. That was awesome! Thanks, Bro!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow. That was awesome! Thanks, Bro!

Like I said, It opened my eyes so far when someone took me to the languages and interpreted it for me.

 

[BillG]

God did not force Pharoah to do what he did

GOD gave PHAROAH strength to do what PHAROAH wanted to do in the first place.. Thats why every step Pharoah showed more COURAGE (hardnened his heart) and was able even after alll the proof that God was more powerful, He continued to do what God needed him to do. God did not have to convince him, PHAROAH was convinced on his own, God just strengthenes his confidence

God hardens people hearts by placing truth in front of them, The more they DENY truth, and refuse to believe that truth, the STRONGER they are in their unbelief.

God speaks of giving the truth so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not hear. This is hardening a nation or a people.

Very interesting indeed.

It is something that I have often thought about.

Was the hardening of Pharos heart to bring about the purpose of God?
Or was it about Pharoah thinking he was a God?

I came to the conclusion it was a battle of wills.

I'm not sure that God gave Pharoah the strength to do what he did.
I think maybe Satan did.

 

[BillG]

God did not force Pharoah to do what he did

GOD gave PHAROAH strength to do what PHAROAH wanted to do in the first place.. Thats why every step Pharoah showed more COURAGE (hardnened his heart) and was able even after alll the proof that God was more powerful, He continued to do what God needed him to do. God did not have to convince him, PHAROAH was convinced on his own, God just strengthenes his confidence

God hardens people hearts by placing truth in front of them, The more they DENY truth, and refuse to believe that truth, the STRONGER they are in their unbelief.

God speaks of giving the truth so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not hear. This is hardening a nation or a people.

BTW

Your post above is great and has made me think.

Thanks for taking the time to post it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

BTW

Your post above is great and has made me think.

Thanks for taking the time to post it.

Your welcome bro

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Very interesting indeed.

It is something that I have often thought about.

Was the hardening of Pharos heart to bring about the purpose of God?
Or was it about Pharoah thinking he was a God?

I came to the conclusion it was a battle of wills.

I'm not sure that God gave Pharoah the strength to do what he did.
I think maybe Satan did.

I think so too.. God just helped a little by exposing him to truth and FORCING him to make a decision. Our hearts are hardened when we are forced to go one way or another, and we go the wrong way..Our pride usually does not allow us to come back..

 

[dcontroversal]

This is true

But what is also true is one does not have to be a calvinist to understand this basic fact.

What the heated discussion boil down to. Is MOST calvinist would disagree, and say if you do not believe as them, Then you CHOSE to follow Jesus out of your own strength. Which is not true.

My probem with their view boils down to one verse...

Many are called, but few chosen

Many does not equal ALL
and
The few chosen of the many called does not equal ALL of the many called

That verse seems to contradict the view that God predestines ALL MEN to heaven or hell

Why were only a few chosen out of the many called?

And, did the all of the many called have the option of belief?

If not why were they called!

 

[BillG]

Our pride usually does not allow us to come back..

Whilst I agree with the here I would like to add a caveat.

Maybe our fear of God stops us coming back.
An unhealthy fear, one that's looking for a whipping.

It's not looking to come back as such but a fear that our Father will reject us when we do. A bit like the prodical son.
3rd strike and now you are out.

That's why we must work hard to be accepted and forgiven

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Whilst I agree with the here I would like to add a caveat.

Maybe our fear of God stops us coming back.
An unhealthy fear, one that's looking for a whipping.

It's not looking to come back as such but a fear that our Father will reject us when we do. A bit like the prodical son.
3rd strike and now you are out.

That's why we must work hard to be accepted and forgiven

I think some do come back, After God softens their heart.

 

[Argueless]

This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I WILL PUT MY LAWS in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. hebrews 8:10-13

If God's laws were placed in their minds and written in their hearts, does scriptures tell us to just believe them and not OBEY them?

...Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does. James 1:22-25

.. He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you HYPOCRITES; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:6-13 (see also Isaiah 5:20-24 & ecclessiastes 12:13-14)

...what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”...If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” Matthew 19:16-26)

Who would you believe when you inquire about how to get ETERNAL LIFE, man made doctrines or Jesus whom God COMMANDED us to listen to? (Matthew 17:6)

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrathcomes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not bepartners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

 

[dcontroversal]

I am astomished at the amount of people who have no idea of the purpose of the law.

Qmen.....what astonishes me is that many willingly place themselves under that which....

a. They cannot keep
b. That which deems guilt
c. That which condemns

.....all the while thinking that adherance to it justifies them before God......!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Qmen.....what astonishes me is that many willingly place themselves under that which....

a. They cannot keep
b. That which deems guilt
c. That which condemns

.....all the while thinking that adherance to it justifies them before God......!

Thats what makes it even worse, that they can not see this basic truth.