Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

I do not think it is as difficult as some make it

1. WHo brought the tax collector to his knees?
2. WHo convicted the tax collector of his sin, the righteousness required, and the judgment he deserves
3. WHo convinced the tax collector that he needed to call out to God to be saved?

Did the tax collector come up with this all himself? Or did he RESPOND to Gods calling. Because God gave him the MEANS to have faith (the word)

God has dealt to every man a measure of faith.....God is fair, just and righteous....no man will have an excuse or be able to say that God was unfair in His dealings with men....

a. Day unto day testifies
b. Night unto Night testifies
c. The invisible testifies
d. Creation testifies
e. All languages can understand
f. Christ is the savior of all men especially those that believe
g. God would have ALL MEN be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth

etc.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Whilst I agree with the here I would like to add a caveat.

Maybe our fear of God stops us coming back.
An unhealthy fear, one that's looking for a whipping.

It's not looking to come back as such but a fear that our Father will reject us when we do. A bit like the prodical son.
3rd strike and now you are out.

That's why we must work hard to be accepted and forgiven

Yeah.....I don't agree with the last statement.....

We are already accepted in Christ and forgiveness is based upon repentance not working real hard to be forgiven......

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen, Because it was not created to take us further. It can not even take us to salvation, let alone sanctification.

Many miss the contrast between MOSES and Joshua (Savior) The law cannot deliver anyone into the promise land....all it can do is take you to the very edge of the promise land and then to enter one needs the SAVIOR TO LEAD THEM IN...Christ is the one door just as JOSHUA was the one that delivered into the land of rest....

Note that under the law 1 sin kept MOSES from entering!

 

[dcontroversal]

Its crazy

First they wanted to return to Egypt. Now they want to return to law.

I think it is because they want what is familiar, and what they know. Livig faith in things which are not seen are scary propositions. Thats why it is so hard. It is much easier to obey these rules and play these ceremonies.. because we can see them. But sadly, to do this, you have to water down the law.. Or you would never be able to sustain that walk. Because it woudl always condemn you.

Amen.....the law condemns and shuts the mouth of the whole world....that which condemns will never JUSTIFY before GOD....it is impossible to do both!

 

[TruthTalk]

Hi forum,
Someone should tell the Argueless to stop posting walls of out-of-context scripture because all us us here have computers and we are equiped to cut-copy and paste all of the bible verses that we wish to on our own.

 

[dcontroversal]

I'll give it one more shot.

God created the soil. We don't create our own soil.
God plants the seed. The seed is planted in the dead heart. The seed grows into a NEW heart. The dead heart fades away. This is the new birth. IT IS ALL GOD. We do not conceive and birth ourselves.

WHERE does our faith come from? Don't you see? If we say God called and led us but WE chose, then WE have something to boast about!

I've come to believe this is the last hurdle of self. That somehow, somewhere, in my dead flesh I chose Him. I would NOT have chosen Him had He not FIRST chosen me.

Appreciate the discussion brother, Be Blessed.

I like it.....except for one part....the bolded...

Did not Paul say....

I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi forum,
Someone should tell the Argueless to stop posting walls of out-of-context scripture because all us us here have computers and we are equiped to cut-copy and paste all of the bible verses that we wish to on our own.

So glad the mods built in the ignore option...Seoche has nothing to offer but the same ignorant accusatory boot scrapings.....!

 

[TruthTalk]

So glad the mods built in the ignore option...Seoche has nothing to offer but the same ignorant accusatory boot scrapings.....!

Yep time has past to re-ignore already.

 

[TruthTalk]

I like it.....except for one part....the bolded...

Did not Paul say....

I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.

Hi decon, I've been thinking about PennEd's post off and on today. I'm not secure about the first part of this quote, but second half is true;

Quote PennEd:
1)."The seed grows into a NEW heart. The dead heart fades away. This is the new birth. IT IS ALL GOD. (True or False?)
2). We do not conceive and birth ourselves. (True).

Ezekiel36:26
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi decon, I've been thinking about PennEd's post off and on today. I'm not secure about the first part of this quote, but second half is true;

Quote PennEd:
1)."The seed grows into a NEW heart. The dead heart fades away. This is the new birth. IT IS ALL GOD. (True or False?)
2). We do not conceive and birth ourselves. (True).

Ezekiel36:26
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

Yeah......without further explaination I am not sure either....

We have been born again from above by incorruptible seed instantaniously at the moment of conversion......after that come the transformational process of the mind as found in Romans 12:1-2

So.....unless he is speaking of the latter, I am not sure I can agree with the first part....I.E. ->>seed growing into a new while old fades away

 

[preacher4truth]

I'll give it one more shot.

God created the soil. We don't create our own soil.
God plants the seed. The seed is planted in the dead heart. The seed grows into a NEW heart. The dead heart fades away. This is the new birth. IT IS ALL GOD. We do not conceive and birth ourselves.

WHERE does our faith come from? Don't you see? If we say God called and led us but WE chose, then WE have something to boast about!

I've come to believe this is the last hurdle of self. That somehow, somewhere, in my dead flesh I chose Him. I would NOT have chosen Him had He not FIRST chosen me.

Appreciate the discussion brother, Be Blessed.

Yes, of course, it is all God.

Amazingly some will fight for "their part" while simultaneously attempting to say it is 100% of God.

God prepares the heart, plants the seed, faith is evidence of conversion, we are granted repentance, he does all the saving, and we are not saved via decision.

Several on here fighting the "workers for" also believe they did something in order for God to save them, i.e. God saw they chose him in the future (out of their sincere and genuine love for him! ) so the bottom line of that false gospel is he REWARDED them salvation.

Nope, sorry, it is due to nothing man has done, it is due to nothing man has not done, and due to nothing in man. It's Soli Deo Gloria!

We did nothing to be in Adam and we did nothing to be in Christ; as in 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 it is "because of Him..."

Anyhow, carry on, get angry at the truth, fight for "what you did" (that you "chose".) Seen it all before a million times. Very few of you give God all the glory, you take some for yourselves for "choosing" and Him seeing you as a good boy for doing so.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, of course, it is all God.

Amazingly some will fight for "their part" while simultaneously attempting to say it is 100% of God.

God prepares the heart, plants the seed, faith is evidence of conversion, we are granted repentance, he does all the saving, and we are not saved via decision.

Several on here fighting the "workers for" also believe they did something in order for God to save them, i.e. God saw they chose him in the future (out of their sincere and genuine love for him! ) so the bottom line of that false gospel is he REWARDED them salvation.

Nope, sorry, it is due to nothing man has done, it is due to nothing man has not done, and due to nothing in man. It's Soli Deo Gloria!

We did nothing to be in Adam and we did nothing to be in Christ; as in 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 it is "because of Him..."

Anyhow, carry on, get angry at the truth, fight for "what you did" (that you "chose".) Seen it all before a million times. Very few of you give God all the glory, you take some for yourselves for "choosing" and Him seeing you as a good boy for doing so.

What seed was Paul planting and Apollos watering?

 

[preacher4truth]

What seed was Paul planting and Apollos watering?

Where does it say they planted seed or is it just figurative language?

Here is verse 3:7 "So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth."

What does the evangelism of Paul and Apollos have to do with anything I stated? It's apples and oranges.

 

[dcontroversal]

Where does it say they planted seed or is it just figurative language?

Here is verse 3:7 "So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth."

What does the evangelism of Paul and Apollos have to do with anything I stated? It's apples and oranges.

Obviously God gives the growth...
no need to get snippy!!

So......receive with meekness the engrafted word

How shall they hear except one be sent....

You really think Paul was speaking figuratively about the WORD of God he preached to these people...or TIMOTHY being his Son in the truth.....

No offense, but there is a balance....and I have yet to see a proper application of

Many called but few chosen by anyone Calvinist.....

and like I said....No need to get snippy or imply some of the things you imply with those who do not agree with the calvinistic view...

You Know from reading me that ALL GLORY goes to GOD and I jabe said numerous times it is ALL God and he GETS ALL THE GLORY!!!!!

 

[preacher4truth]

Obviously God gives the growth...
no need to get snippy!!

Simmer down champ, nothing I said was snippy.

So......receive with meekness the engrafted word

How shall they hear except one be sent....

You really think Paul was speaking figuratively about the WORD of God he preached to these people...or TIMOTHY being his Son in the truth.....

Do I really think he was speaking figuratively? Of course. Was he planting literal seeds? Are we really a field?

No offense, but there is a balance....and I have yet to see a proper application of

Many called but few chosen by anyone Calvinist.....

I really couldn't care less if you're not satisfied with others answers, and you've provided zero examples so your argument is moot.

That said, what is your take?

and like I said....No need to get snippy or imply some of the things you imply with those who do not agree with the calvinistic view...

Take a chill pill bro.

It's a biblical view, but "Calvinist" is slathered on it order to derogate. Try refuting the Scripture provided and the arguments without your ad hominem and attempt to brush it off as "Calvinism."

You Know from reading me that ALL GLORY goes to GOD and I jabe said numerous times it is ALL God and he GETS ALL THE GLORY!!!!!

Really? Then what is your problem if you "agree?"

Obviously something got in your craw. You defending the choosers on here who got rewarded for what God saw them do down the corridors of time? Need to defend them and grandstand? Guess what pal, I can stand alone on the Word, and couldn't care less what any of them or you think. Don't get upset, calm down, I'm just laying it out there, I don't need an audience or likes, nor do I need to feed off of ridicule of my opponents by others.

Also, a person can make any statement of belief they want, as you are doing above, but the real truth comes out in what they actually teach. Many on here deny the exact statement you've made as soon as they start teaching.

I'm just telling it like it is, God does it all, but you're all lippy and upset over it, lol!

If one believes God saved them because they chose;

1) It's a false gospel and human choice is refuted by Scripture;

2) They deny Scripture that rejects such a notion.

3) It is not Soli Deo Gloria.

 

[VCO]

I am astomished at the amount of people who have no idea of the purpose of the law.

The Purpose of the LAW has always been:

Romans 3:20 (HCSB)
20 For no one will be justified in His sight by the works of the law,
because the knowledge of sin ⌊comes⌋ through the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Obviously God gives the growth...
no need to get snippy!!

So......receive with meekness the engrafted word

How shall they hear except one be sent....

You really think Paul was speaking figuratively about the WORD of God he preached to these people...or TIMOTHY being his Son in the truth.....

No offense, but there is a balance....and I have yet to see a proper application of

Many called but few chosen by anyone Calvinist.....

and like I said....No need to get snippy or imply some of the things you imply with those who do not agree with the calvinistic view...

You Know from reading me that ALL GLORY goes to GOD and I jabe said numerous times it is ALL God and he GETS ALL THE GLORY!!!!!

Your wasting your time bro. And he can not see his remarks as anything, He will blame shift it and try to put it on you.

 

[dcontroversal]

If man has no choice why did God call for us to reason together....why...

a. Did Adam have 1 rule eat or not eat
b. Why did Cain have a right to repent and master over his sin
c. Why did Noah have the right to build or not build
d. Did Abram have the option to stay or go
e. Why did Lot get the option to leave or stay
f. Why did Abraham get the option to offer Isaac or not
g. Why did Moses have a choice to lead or not
h. Why did the people chose to bekieve the lies of the 10 spies
I. Why did Joshua give the choice of who to follow God or false gods and then choose God
j. etc.....

Pay attention!

Who is the man who fears the LORD? He will instruct him in the way he should choose.

Let Your hand be ready to help me, For I have chosen Your precepts.

I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants

I have chosen the faithful way; I have placed Your ordinances before me.

From day one it has been about choice...even CHRIST HAD TO TAKE FLESH, BE TEMPTED AND CHOOSE--->Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

There is a plethora of redundant scripture that really has no purpose in the bible if man has no choice in the matter....Such as...

No need for day unto day and night unto night nor the invisible things to testify.

Christ is the savior of all men especially those which believe.

We persuade men......

Preach the gospel....

No need for witnessing....

No need to be ready to give an answer for why we believe what we believe

NO NEED to proclaim anything because God has already made his decision and the men that will be saved will and those on the way to hell are outta luck...

But on the other hand....If God preordained before the world that ALL AND WHOSEVER WILL come to him by faith will be saved.....then ALL the above applies...

 

[dcontroversal]

Can someone that believes in Calvinism explain the following verse in light of the belief that God chose before the foundation of the world who would be saved and who would not be saved....answer the following questions please.

MANY are called but few Chosen

Why are only a few of the many that are called chosen?

Why are not ALL THAT ARE CALLED chosen?

Why call many that will not be chosen?

Why call any if the saved are already chosen?

WHY not call ALL IF Christ Is the savior of all men?

There seems to be only one logical answer that fits all the above questions!

 

[Argueless]

Godlessness in the Last Days
...But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, ALWAYS LEARNING BUT NEVER ABLE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH. 2 Timothy 3:1-7