Working is always evil !I was scheduled to work today and I’m working today. Is that evil? According to a SDA and an Armstrongite who both live on my mail route it is.
Sabbath
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What would you consider evil?I don't condemn you or anyone else for anything. That is not my job or any man's job. Let us each be persuaded we are within our Lord's graces. If you are happy with your walk with Jesus, I will call you brother and be happy with you. If in fellowship and I notice evil about you; I simply will separate myself from you and leave you to God.
Is working on a Saturday or a Sunday evil?
Those that worship on Sunday are also not supposed to work on that day, but I know many who do and some know God. Are they evil?
I ask because to me it sounds like you're contradicting yourself.
The idea of separation from an evil person is one that could be pursued.
New Covenant
Many say we are already in God’s new covenant that was prophesied in the OT and in Acts/Hebrews.
... . . . .. . . . .. . .
Do you see the direct link between Jeremiah and Hebrews? What about the parallels in Acts and Joel?
Acts 2:16-18 “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”
First a time frame in Joel: Joel 2:1 “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;”
Next It speaks of a restoration after the Day of the Lord. Then we are given a picture of the new covenant: Joel 2:28,29 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.”
What can we conclude from this? What we have today is not the New Covenant God was talking about. Not yet.
Under the first covenant, sins were forgiven by sacrifice of living animals. Under the New covenant Jesus was our sacrifice for sins. The very moment when Jesus said "A NEW COMMANDMENT I give unto you, Love One Another" was His Law. His Commandment. In effect by saying "New" He made all others "Old"
Under the Old Covenant. "His Commandments" were different.
Deu_7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Deu_8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
Deu_13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Deu_28:45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee:
Deu_30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deu_30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Jos_22:5 But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
1Ki_8:58 That he may incline our hearts unto him, to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and his statutes, and his judgments, which he commanded our fathers.
1Ki_8:61 Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.
2Ki_23:3 And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant.
2Ch_34:31 And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, to perform the words of the covenant which are written in this book.
Under the Old Covenant, His Commandments were to keep the 10 Commandments, keep His Statutes, Keep His Ordinances, Keep His Testimonies.
Jesus Changes all that, when He says: "A NEW Commandment I give unto you. Love One Another" He does not say "Another Commandment I give unto you, but clearly says a "NEW" commandment.
1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn_3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Notice the above six verses are from the Apostle John himself. And also notice that the following verses the Apostle John plainly and clearly teaches us what "His Commandments" are:
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should 1) believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and 2) love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
His Commandments to the Israelite people and to us Christians are different. The Commandments He gave to the Israelite people to follow and to obey for ever and ever, was the old covenant, namely the 10 Commandments. The Commandments He gave to Christian people to follow and to obey, is the new covenant, which is to Believe in Him and Love One Another.
Am i then condemning the 10 Commandments. God forbid. All should follow the 10 Commandments. i have kept the Sabbath for over 12 years now. But to say or teach that a person MUST keep it, is in error. Every person should give to homeless, but to say or teach every person MUST give to the homeless to be Saved, is likewise in error. All of us SHOULD give to the needy, feed the hungry, help those in need, clothe the naked, visit the sick, visit the elderly, keep the Sabbath. But to say YOU MUST do those things, or you Have to do those things, is indeed wrong. Yes we should do those things, but those things are NOT required for one to be Saved. To say they are, is to say and teach false doctrines.
Keep His Commandments under the old covenant is to keep the 10 Commandments, all Statutes, and all Ordinances.
Keep His Commandments under the new covenant is to believe in Jesus and to Love One Another, as He COMMANDED us to do.
Those who believe in Jesus (Faith) AND Love One Another (Works) are accepted with Him, and He will live in them, and they in Him. Those who fail to do one or the other or both, are not accepted with Him, no matter what they claim with their mouths or what doctrine they hold on to.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Agreeing to disagree is contrary to Scriptures, which plainly and clearly teach us to think the same thing, to have ONE MIND, to not be divided. Agreeing to disagree is why the Church today is so divided and without POWER, having over 120 different denominations, because instead of coming to an agreement, coming to a conclusion, they just agreed to disagree and divided.
IN regards to your statement above that verse was told to those who were under the Old covenant, to which even Jesus Himself was subject unto and under the old covenant, else sin would have been found in Him, and He would not have been a perfect sacrifice. While Jesus was alive, He kept all 600+ Laws, Statutes, and Ordinances under the old covenant.
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Another way to ask the same question is "Master, which is the great commandment of the Laws of Moses?"
Another way to ask the same question is "Master, which is the great commandment of the Laws we have TODAY?"
Another way to ask the same question is "Master, which is the great commandment under the old covenant?"
Jesus answered the question presented to Him concerning the LAW that was present and active at the time the question was asked.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Under the old covenant all the Law could be summed up with those two commandments. Under the New Covenant that started when Jesus rose from the dead, all the Law could be summed up with "Believe on Jesus" and "Love One Another".
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Under the old covenant, keeping the Sabbath was a LAW, if you failed to keep it you were put to death. Throughout the entire Old Testament we see how important keeping the Sabbath was. It was commanded over and over and over again, in many different Books of the Old Testament. In contrast to how important it was in the Old Testament, let us see if Jesus Christ continued to teach How important Keeping the Sabbath was, Here are the verses which Jesus Himself taught us Christians to continue to keep the Sabbath:
.. . ... .. .. . .. . . .
Really? None. Jesus under the Old Covenant in the Old Testament, said all the time "keep my Sabbath" but in the New Testament, He does not even say it once. Really? why do you think He did that?
Well Jesus did not tell us Christians to continue to keep the Sabbath, let us see the verses which His Disciples told us to keep it:
.... . .. . .. . . .. .
Really? None. Not one of all the Disciple ever instructed us to continue to keep the Sabbath. Doesn't anyone find that strange at all? IN the old Testament, it was said over and over again to keep the Sabbath, and if you didn't your crops would fail, famine would come upon the land, you were killed. But in the teaching of Jesus and His Disciple, nobody even mentions for us to continue to keep the Sabbath.
Consider what Jesus Himself plainly and clearly leaves out, when a man asks Him what He must do to be Saved (please note, at this time when the question was asked the New Covenant had not yet started, so Jesus answered that man Truthfully what is required for him to be Saved under the old covenant):
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Did you catch that? IN the Old Testament, keeping the Sabbath was super important to do, but when this man ask which of the Commandments should he keep, Jesus lists the ones he should keep in order to have eternal Life. Did you notice that Jesus did NOT mention to keep the Sabbath? Did you notice that? Why? Why would Jesus NOT mention to keep the Sabbath if it was SOOOOO important to do? i will tell you why. Under the New Covenant we Christians are not required to keep the Sabbath. What we are Required to do for Eternal Life is to Believe on Jesus and Love One Another. NOT continue to keep the Sabbath.
So even though we are not required to keep the Sabbath, does not mean the Sabbath is not important to God. We are not required to feed the hungry to be Saved, but it is important to God that we feed the hungry, which is to Love One Another.
When Jesus gets here at the 7th Trumpet blowing and sets up His Kingdom on Earth as the Prophets of old have foretold. Is when Jesus will reinstate the Sabbath Day. An example of this kind of Reinstatement that Jesus will do when He gets here to set up His Kingdom on Earth, can be found in Zechariah 14. Right now keeping the Feast of Tabernacles is NOT required but when Jesus Returns to the Earth with the Holy City over where Jerusalem is today, is when all humans will be required to keep it. The Sabbath day will also be reinstated for humans to keep. But like keeping the Feast of Tabernacles is not required TODAY, so is not keeping the Sabbath required TODAY either.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Simple fact of forums. The longer the post the fewer will read them. You just posted 3 very long posts. Most likely nobody will read them. Therefore no one will bother. Too many words. I didn't bother to read them!!
If you do not read it, what is that to me? Do as you will. God will lead whomever God will lead to read it. What is it to me if you do or don't?
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
ROFL
You do posting to make people ignore it. Then you expect God to force people to read it. You are being foolish. That is not how things work!
K
Karraster
Guest
I skimmed. The part about knowing Sabbath is important to God? But then to not observe it? It's one thing to not know, but you say you know DecipleDave? I don't get that reasoning, but guess I'm not meant to.
Sabbath is not commanded in the NT? It's obvious they were observing, Mary delayed preparing Jesus' body to rest according to the commandment. Jesus said pray your flight not be in Winter or on the Sabbath, so He expected they would be keeping Sabbath after He went away. Many more verses that lets us know without a doubt, Sabbath is still for God's people. It's a blessing, a gift, and it pleases Almighty.
Sabbath is not commanded in the NT? It's obvious they were observing, Mary delayed preparing Jesus' body to rest according to the commandment. Jesus said pray your flight not be in Winter or on the Sabbath, so He expected they would be keeping Sabbath after He went away. Many more verses that lets us know without a doubt, Sabbath is still for God's people. It's a blessing, a gift, and it pleases Almighty.
Just as foolish to be here and tell people that you won't read their posts because they are to long.
So you think it is foolish to try and help other posters be able to communicate better. Point out where I was wrong. In this case there were 3 very long posts. Did you read each one in its entirety? At times longer posts are required for specific details but the length needs to be shortened to only have the minimum details required in an organized manner. Any other method has people just looking at the length and skipping it.
If I’m interested in what someone has to say or am in a conversation I read it regardless the length. It’s crazy;Like this is some famous blog that people come to and read. It’s not.
Awesome Deade. I just am coming out of the adventist faith and that church also is where Ive decided to attend . I also believe all 10 commandments are still meant to be kept since in the very last chapter of Gods word he still says , If you love me keep my commandments and so I do because I love
LGF played the same games and could not be reasoned with either. Must be an SDA thing.
And maybe we that keep the comman
Yep, I just scrolled right past all of them!!!!!!
I have worked missions with Sunday worshippers. I don't consider that evil. We fellowshipped on what we have in common. Evil is gossip, lying and backstabbing. There is plenty of that going around also.
Well I sat down and started writing another book about why I am not a seventh-day adventist. This was after reading the Great Controversy. Then my computer broke and later I couldn't find where I had saved it, so it on the backburner for now. My second book on prophecy will be at the bookstores within a couple more weeks. I need to take some time and promote both books.
I would like to fellowship with some SDAs as I have in the past. But they start asking questions as soon as we meet and they realize we are so different. Ellen White has sure done a number on those folks. I don't see eye to eye even with the Denver folks, but they know and accept that. I have even taught adults at Sabbath School for them. If I have any errors, in my belief, it is because of me and not someone else. So I only have my errors to live by, not mine and someone else's.
Maybe you might consider the reason your computer broke and you can't find that file is that it is God's way of insuring you don't write that part about the Sabbath not being as God ordained in the old covenant.I have worked missions with Sunday worshippers. I don't consider that evil. We fellowshipped on what we have in common. Evil is gossip, lying and backstabbing. There is plenty of that going around also.
Well I sat down and started writing another book about why I am not a seventh-day adventist. This was after reading the Great Controversy. Then my computer broke and later I couldn't find where I had saved it, so it on the backburner for now. My second book on prophecy will be at the bookstores within a couple more weeks. I need to take some time and promote both books.
I would like to fellowship with some SDAs as I have in the past. But they start asking questions as soon as we meet and they realize we are so different. Ellen White has sure done a number on those folks. I don't see eye to eye even with the Denver folks, but they know and accept that. I have even taught adults at Sabbath School for them. If I have any errors, in my belief, it is because of me and not someone else. So I only have my errors to live by, not mine and someone else's.
Which wasn't changed at all by Jesus when his blood sealed the new.
Nowhere in the Bible are we told the Sabbath day was changed to Sunday!
Anyone who has written their will or were there when one was read knows this. That after a person passes on their last will and testament cannot be changed. It can be fought over but never changed. It was the last will and testament of that individual. And it stands.
Sunday as our day of worship today is found nowhere in the Bible. Jesus didn't change the Sabbath day of rest to Sunday. And when he died to seal the new covenant with his blood, that like unto a will and testament today, cannot be changed once he's gone back to the Father.
Sabbath stands as God ordained.
Sunday's day of worship , change, has a Pagan history.
God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it for his worship. And we who insist Sunday is the day of worship will answer for that
before him.
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away [and they still have not!], one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the LEAST of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:17-19).
Mark: 7:7-9
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
There are those who will argue, Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and we're to honor God each and every day. Yes, Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath because Jesus was God who instituted the Sabbath day in the beginning and told us to keep it holy.
Of course every day we are to honor God. But if you go to church on Sunday, you've lost your argument defending one day of worship thinking the traditional Sabbath day is no longer relevant.
And if you don't believe that, when Sunday worship has its roots in pagan Rome, consider what the Roman's invention, their Catholic church, when the faith was made lawful there by emperor Constantine, informs concerning Sabbath and Sunday worship today. After all, the day of worship was changed in Rome to Sunday and by the Roman's church.
Worshiping God on Sunday is honoring pagan God's of yesteryear. GOD NEVER changed the Sabbath day he sanctified and made holy. Rome did!
“Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.” — Rome’s Challenge immaculateheart.com/maryonline Dec 2003.
“Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” — James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 edition), p. 72-73 (16th Edition, p 111; 88th Edition, p. 89).
Source & More:
Statements made by the Roman Catholic Church about the Sabbath
I do not have a problem with Sabbath. I fully agree Sunday worship is a pagan Roman entry into tradition. I worship with The Church of God Seventh-Day out of Denver, Colorado. I have kept the spirit of Sabbath since coming back to Christ late in '83.
My problem is with Ellen White and her prophecies. SDA has a Revelation Seminar that is chock full of holes. All based on The Great Controversy book. I agree with many things the SDA hold as truths. The Adventist movement of 1844 spawned more than just the SDA church. By the time SDA was founded in 1860, the mainstream Adventists embraced Ellen's book. Those that didn't broke off into other groups. My people are from these other groups.
Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Why would we go back to the shadow in the new earth?
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
There is no caveat in that verse. It doesn't say "until the new earth".
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Doesn't this worry you at all??