Sabbath

mailmandan · Oct 21, 2018

There is no record or even hint that anyone prior to Exodus 16 kept the Sabbath: Yet the Patriarchs were instructed regarding: Offerings: Genesis 4:3-4, Altars Genesis 8:20, Priests: Genesis 14:18, Tithes: Genesis 14:20, Circumcision: Genesis 17:10, Marriage: Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 34:9. Why would God leave out the Sabbath command?

Also, look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

Obviously, not all the same commandments, statues and laws found in Genesis as found in the Law of Moses under this covenant. Who changed the seventh day? It's still the seventh day.

mailmandan · Oct 21, 2018

JesusLives said:

The best way to intepret the meaning of John's writings is to compare them with the other writings of John. The Greek word for "commandments" in Revelation 14:12 is entole which means "an order, command, charge, precept, injunction."

The same word is used repeatedly in the writings of John to refer to the instructions of Christ. John uses an entirely different Greek word in his writings when he refers to the Ten Commandments: nomas. For example:

Did not Moses give you the law {nomos}, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law {nomos}? Why go ye about to kill me? (John 7:19; Jesus is referring to the 6th commandment "Thou shalt not kill"--Ex. 20:13)
According to John, the number one commandment {entolae} of Jesus to the Apostles was not Sabbath-worship, but for them to love one another:

A new commandment {entolae} I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (John 13:34) This is my commandment {entolae}, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. (John 15:12)
Notice how John refers to the "commandments" of God in his letter:

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments {entolas}. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments {entolas}; and His commandments {entolae} are not burdensome. (1 John 5:2-3)
Earlier in the same letter John tells us exactly what the "commandments" of God are:

Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God. And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His [God's] commandments {entolas} and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. This is His [God's] commandment {entolae}, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He [God] commanded {entolaen} us. The one who keeps His [God's] commandments {entolas} abides in Him,... (1 John 3:21-24)

From this we can see that in John's writings the "commandments" of God are:

To believe in Jesus Christ
To love one another

Feel free to read the entire article here - http://www.nonsda.org/study8.shtml

Seventh-day Adventists teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

That ludicrous doctrine is also refuted in the article.

Deade · Oct 21, 2018

mailmandan said:

Of course we follow Jesus' example in everything. He set the pace going through all the steps we must follow. Did Jesus need to really be baptised for the remission of sins?

Matt. 3:14 , 15 "But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him."

He didn't need it but He did it for us to follow. Jesus also said the Law would stand until ALL be fulfilled.

Matt. 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

mailmandan · Oct 21, 2018

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No Marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).

These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).

If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?

If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to "put legally into place" the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments, which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

mailmandan · Oct 21, 2018

Deade said:

Do you keep Kosher laws? What about the Passover, Sukkot & Hanukkah? Do you worship in a temple? We are under a new covenant, yet certain people seem to mix the old and new covenants.

Jesus was NOT water baptized "in order to obtain" the remission of sins and neither are we. (Acts 10:43-47)

In regards to Matthew 5:18, see - https://www.gotquestions.org/abolish-fulfill-law.html

JesusLives · Oct 21, 2018

Just remember that there may come a time in the future when your neighbor looks at you and says you knew the truth but you didn't tell me. Just trying to tell the truth as written in the Bible.

I don't see anywhere in the Bible stating that God's law that was written in stone by His finger has changed and that includes the 4th commandment to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.

I don't want my neighbors to look at me and say I didn't try to let them know what was the truth as written in the Bible.

DiscipleDave · Oct 21, 2018

Deade said:

Jesus and the Apostles never said that we could not look at porn? Does that mean it is OK to look at porn? God Forbid!
Jesus and the Apostles kept the Sabbath because Jesus (while alive) and the Apostles were under the OLD COVENANT laws, statutes, and ordinances. Jesus lived by all 600+ commandments. if He didn't live by ALL the laws of Moses, then sin would have been found in Him, and would not have been a perfect sacrifice for us. Jesus and the Apostles lived by the old Covenant, they observed the Sabbath, because they were UNDER THE OLD COVENANT, while Jesus yet lived. The New Covenant which Christians are under, started the moment Jesus rose from the Dead, making all the Laws, Statutes, and ordinances OLD.

Under the New Covenant with Jesus Christ, we are NOT told, commanded, or even suggested to, continue to keep the Sabbath. You do error in mixing what is required under the Old Covenant with that which is required under the new covenant.

i assure you with no doubts whatsoever, that if Jesus wanted us Christians, under the new covenant to continue to keep the Sabbath, He or His Apostles would have given us accurate instructions to do so.
Jesus nor any Apostle ever instructed us to continue to keep the Sabbath, woe to those who teach we MUST continue to do so, they do error and will not escape his wrath when it comes upon all those who live in sin, and teach false doctrines, things contrary to the Word of God.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Deade · Oct 21, 2018

mailmandan said:

You want to label us all as SDA. The Adventist movement spawned many churches, one of which became the SDA (1863). The rest of them rejected Ellen White's prophecies and formed their own groups. Most of them are "Church of God" within their titles. It wasn't Ellen White that decided the Mark of the beast was Sunday worship. That was attributed to William Miller. I agree with them on this subject.

DiscipleDave · Oct 21, 2018

JesusLives said:

Amen, and Scriptures are CLEAR what His Commandment are:

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment, That we should 1) believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, AND 2) love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.

Woe to anyone who teaches His Commandments are contrary to what the Apostle John plainly and clearly just told us what His Commandments are. Woe to them indeed. The Apostle John Clearly tells us what His Commandments are 1) believe on Jesus and 2) Love One Another. Woe to those who add to that, such as to keep His Commandments we MUST keep the Sabbath too. They are deceived and know not the TRUTH, do not hearken to them, but hearken to the Apostle John who plainly tells us what His Commandments are. Believe the Word of God, not what humans teach you.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Deade · Oct 21, 2018

DiscipleDave said:

Jesus and the Apostles never said that we could not look at porn? Does that mean it is OK to look at porn? God Forbid!
Jesus and the Apostles kept the Sabbath because Jesus (while alive) and the Apostles were under the OLD COVENANT laws, statutes, and ordinances. Jesus lived by all 600+ commandments. if He didn't live by ALL the laws of Moses, then sin would have been found in Him, and would not have been a perfect sacrifice for us. Jesus and the Apostles lived by the old Covenant, they observed the Sabbath, because they were UNDER THE OLD COVENANT, while Jesus yet lived. The New Covenant which Christians are under, started the moment Jesus rose from the Dead, making all the Laws, Statutes, and ordinances OLD.

Under the New Covenant with Jesus Christ, we are NOT told, commanded, or even suggested to, continue to keep the Sabbath. You do error in mixing what is required under the Old Covenant with that which is required under the new covenant.

i assure you with no doubts whatsoever, that if Jesus wanted us Christians, under the new covenant to continue to keep the Sabbath, He or His Apostles would have given us accurate instructions to do so.
Jesus nor any Apostle ever instructed us to continue to keep the Sabbath, woe to those who teach we MUST continue to do so, they do error and will not escape his wrath when it comes upon all those who live in sin, and teach false doctrines, things contrary to the Word of God.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Where is your scripture that we are under a new covenant?

mailmandan · Oct 21, 2018

Deade said:

I don't label all Sabbatarians as SDA, yet SDA's are well known for turning keeping the Sabbath day into a legalistic prescriptions for Christians in the New Testament. I deliver mail to a customer who attends the Worldwide church of God (Armstrongism) and he is continuously talking about the Sabbath day and tried to warn me that I need to tell my employer that I cannot work on Saturday because it's the Sabbath day and if I insist on continuing to work on Saturday, then my salvation will be in jeopardy.

-

https://www.gotquestions.org/Worldwide-Church-God-Armstrongism.html

mailmandan · Oct 21, 2018

JesusLives said:

Have you read 2 Corinthians 3:6-9? Can you show me in the NT where the Church is commanded to keep the Sabbath day with all of it's rules and regulations (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that were for Israel under the law? Please don't tell me that you are trusting in keeping the Sabbath day as the basis or means of receiving eternal life.

DiscipleDave · Oct 21, 2018

JesusLives said:

Do you believe Scriptures yes or no?

Exo 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

This covenant is the OLD COVENANT given to the Israelites to follow and obey for ever and ever. You teach that we are still under the Old Covenant, that was given to Israel by God during the time the 10 commandments was written down by Moses for the Israelite people to obey. You do error not understanding the New Covenant given to us by Jesus Christ Himself.

Scriptures plainly teach that we are no longer under the laws of the old covenant, that we are now under a new covenant, but you desire that we Christians continue to live by and under the old covenant which is the 10 commandments.

People wake up from sleeping. the 10 commandments is the Old Covenant, which we Christians are no longer under, we are under a new covenant. The old covenant was an agreement made by God and the Israelite people. The New Covenant is an agreement made by God and all those who believe in Jesus Christ.

Do not believe the Nicolaitans who teach Christians are not only under the New Covenant, but must obey the old Covenant as well (in full or in part). They are deceived and know not the Truth. Do not hearken to them.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Oct 21, 2018

Deade said:

Jer_31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Deade · Oct 21, 2018

mailmandan said:

Yes, I looked into them when I moved back to California. They were too legalistic and exclusive for me. I settled into "Church of God Seventh Day" out of Denver, CO. They used to be out of Stanberry, MO.

From Wikipedia:

mailmandan · Oct 21, 2018

Deade said:

I went to the website and read this about the beliefs of your church:

The seventh-day Sabbath is God’s gift to humanity from creation, was written into the Ten Commandments by God’s finger, kept and taught by Jesus, and observed by the apostolic church. A memorial of both creation and redemption, the Sabbath should be faithfully celebrated by believers now as a day of rest, worship, and well-doing.

*I was happy to read this - Sinful humanity may be saved from the penalty of eternal death and receive eternal life instead, solely by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ, apart from human merit, works, or ceremonies.

Atonement for sins, with its attendant promise of eternal life, comes through Christ’s death and resurrection on our behalf and is received in human experience by faith and repentance.

As long as you don't turn keeping the Sabbath day into a legalistic prescription for salvation, I'm good!

Deade · Oct 21, 2018

DiscipleDave said:

New Covenant

Many say we are already in God’s new covenant that was prophesied in the OT and in Acts/Hebrews.

Heb. 8:7-13 “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

Jer. 31:31-34 “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Do you see the direct link between Jeremiah and Hebrews? What about the parallels in Acts and Joel?

Acts 2:16-18 “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”

First a time frame in Joel: Joel 2:1 “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;”

Next It speaks of a restoration after the Day of the Lord. Then we are given a picture of the new covenant: Joel 2:28,29 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.”

What can we conclude from this? What we have today is not the New Covenant God was talking about. Not yet.

Deade · Oct 21, 2018

mailmandan said:

I went to the website and read this about the beliefs of your church:

The seventh-day Sabbath is God’s gift to humanity from creation, was written into the Ten Commandments by God’s finger, kept and taught by Jesus, and observed by the apostolic church. A memorial of both creation and redemption, the Sabbath should be faithfully celebrated by believers now as a day of rest, worship, and well-doing.

*I was happy to read this - Sinful humanity may be saved from the penalty of eternal death and receive eternal life instead, solely by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ, apart from human merit, works, or ceremonies.

Atonement for sins, with its attendant promise of eternal life, comes through Christ’s death and resurrection on our behalf and is received in human experience by faith and repentance.

As long as you don't turn keeping the Sabbath day into a legalistic prescription for salvation, I'm good!

I keep trying to tell you guys we are not that far apart. I don't do any law or ceremony to get saved. Jesus has already taken care of that if I just accept the gift of grace. Peace brother.

lightbearer · Oct 21, 2018

Deade said:

And as a matter of fact a large percentage of protestant churches were proclaiming the same message Miller was.

Deade · Oct 21, 2018

lightbearer said:

Yes, and the mainstream sure put a hush on that idea in a hurry. They didn't want to admit their Protestant forefathers would carry on with that as it would attack their overall doctrine.

Sabbath

Senior Member

Senior Member

Called of God

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Called of God

Senior Member

Called of God

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Called of God

Senior Member

Called of God

Called of God

Senior Member

Called of God