Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, they had their hopes upon the one day coming Messiah, indeed!!

And I see what you're doing by adding the shed BLOOD of Christ. But, from Moses to the prophets, they were indeed saved. David confirms that within the Book of Psalms. After all, the LAW was for them. Christ opened the doorway for the Gentiles.

The law never saved anyone, it could not. Nore was that the purpose, Again, Study galations. Unless you disagree wiht paul. You have to admit, the law never made anyone righteous

 

[Hevosmies]

e...,
That is a pathetic accusation when you take away G-d's authority to...judge...after our earthly death...by declaring we can declare ourselves ...OSAS,,,,saved...when in fact the Bible teaches we are ...born again...while on this earth.

How can you....?...... I doubt G-d is very happy with you usurping His authority.

Can you answer me this: WHY do you teach that we only have eternal life, MAYBE after we pass to the other side and are judged worthy of it, when the Bible says:

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

and many other similar verses that speak of possessing eternal life in the PRESENT tense.
Why do you teach its future?

 

[notuptome]

The law was not given to make men righteous but to demonstrate to them that they are sinners. The law can only condemn it can never redeem.

Christ is the Rock of our salvation, a Rock that cannot be moved. It is Gods love for us that saves us not our love fore God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[rlm68]

The law never saved anyone, it could not. Nore was that the purpose, Again, Study galations. Unless you disagree wiht paul. You have to admit, the law never made anyone righteous

The LAW was never for us Gentiles to begin with, it's strictly between God and His CHOSEN PEOPLE during that time.

So, the men/women we read about from Moses to the prophets who were obviously under the LAW. We see God with them and God use them mightily . Are you suggesting that if there was never was a Messiah who died on a cross, those great men/women throughout the Old Testament were not going to heaven?

They clearly were saved!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The LAW was never for us Gentiles to begin with, it's strictly between God and His CHOSEN PEOPLE during that time.

Thats not the point, IT NEVER SAVED ONE JEW is the point, that was NEVER its intended purpose.

So, the men/women we read about from Moses to the prophets who were obviously under the LAW. We see God with them and God use them mightily . Are you suggesting that if there was never was a Messiah who died on a cross those great men/women throughout the Old Testament were not going to heaven?

They clearly were saved!!

They were not saved by the law. Can you name one person besides Christ who fulfilled the law? The law in moses own words said whoever does nto obey EVERY word written is under a curse.. So who was saved by that law which could never save anyone?

Hebrews was written to these same jews. And said clearly. The blood of bulls and goats NEVER took away sin. I guess the word NEVER does not mean never?

Paul said the PURPOSE of the law wa to prepair people for when the messiah came. It was given to show people their SIN, so they could understand how serious even the smallest sin was..

Sadly it appears you have fallen for the same lie most jews bought, that the law could save them..

 

[rlm68]

They were not saved by the sacrificial system and or any law keeping drivel <--Hebrews/Romans..........your dualistic bolded drivel above is false......and in all honesty proves you really do not know what you are talking about......

I am removing the fact Christ showed up onto the scene period. And I am claiming from Moses to the prophets whom God used mightily would have been saved in the situation they were in even if there was no Christ ever. Those men clearly were saved. Even God had Michael take the bones of Moses from the Adversary so they could not be used improperly. If there never was a Jesus (Yeshua), these men/women would have still made it heaven. Therefore, they were saved!!

 

[John146]

Thats not the point, IT NEVER SAVED ONE JEW is the point, that was NEVER its intended purpose.



They were not saved by the law. Can you name one person besides Christ who fulfilled the law? The law in moses own words said whoever does nto obey EVERY word written is under a curse.. So who was saved by that law which could never save anyone?

Hebrews was written to these same jews. And said clearly. The blood of bulls and goats NEVER took away sin. I guess the word NEVER does not mean never?

Paul said the PURPOSE of the law wa to prepair people for when the messiah came. It was given to show people their SIN, so they could understand how serious even the smallest sin was..

Sadly it appears you have fallen for the same lie most jews bought, that the law could save them..

What happen to the Jew if he transgressed the law?

 

[rlm68]

Thats not the point, IT NEVER SAVED ONE JEW is the point, that was NEVER its intended purpose.



They were not saved by the law. Can you name one person besides Christ who fulfilled the law? The law in moses own words said whoever does nto obey EVERY word written is under a curse.. So who was saved by that law which could never save anyone?

Hebrews was written to these same jews. And said clearly. The blood of bulls and goats NEVER took away sin. I guess the word NEVER does not mean never?

Paul said the PURPOSE of the law wa to prepair people for when the messiah came. It was given to show people their SIN, so they could understand how serious even the smallest sin was..

Sadly it appears you have fallen for the same lie most jews bought, that the law could save them..

I am not claiming the LAW saved them...

I am claiming that if there never was a Jesus (Yeshua) who died for ALL SINS, those men and women would have still been saved by God!!

They were more faithful to God than any of us are!!

They believed and trusted in God just like we do.

They clearly would have never been tossed into the Lake of Fire!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What happen to the Jew if he transgressed the law?

The same thing that happens to you when you sin.

Although, all it took was one sin, in fact, we were dead to God the moment we were born being a child of Adam.

Each sin we commit does not make us MORE worthy of hell.. If one man has 1 death sentence and one has 500. Does it matter, when judgment day comes, they will both die.

Unless their sin is atoned for. Which only one atonment counts, and that atonement is Christ.

The OT states a suffering servant will come and take the sin of his people. Which included them.

Abraham was saved because he had faith (gen 15 with Rom 4)

David was called a man after gods heart BEFORE he commited all those sins, and before he wrote the psalm admitting sacriice and burnt offering God did not desire.

Many Many people were saved before the law was given, before the law was made, God did not make it HARDER for Isreal then the people before. And much harder than us..

Salvation has always been by grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not claiming the LAW saved them...

I am claiming that if there never was a Jesus (Yeshua) who died for ALL SINS, those men and women would have still been saved by God!!

No they would not have been, Thats why they were placed in Paradise below UNTIL Christ went to retrieve them and take them up to heaven with him, their payment had not yet been paid.

They were more faithful to God than any of us are!!

They believed and trusted in God just like we do.

They clearly would have never been tossed into the Lake of Fire!!

Without the atoning sacrifice of christ, no ones faith would have saved them.

And no, they were not more faithful than we are.. well maybe you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am removing the fact Christ showed up onto the scene period. And I am claiming from Moses to the prophets whom God used mightily would have been saved in the situation they were in even if there was no Christ ever. Those men clearly were saved. Even God had Michael take the bones of Moses from the Adversary so they could not be used improperly. If there never was a Jesus (Yeshua), these men/women would have still made it heaven. Therefore, they were saved!!

Welp Dcon, it makes sense now. This guy does not understand what seperates us from God. And what saves us.

No wonder he denies eternal security.. He still thinks he has power to save himself.. just like the OT people did.

 

[rlm68]

No they would not have been, Thats why they were placed in Paradise below UNTIL Christ went to retrieve them and take them up to heaven with him, their payment had not yet been paid.



Without the atoning sacrifice of christ, no ones faith would have saved them.

And no, they were not more faithful than we are.. well maybe you?

You do know the story of Lazarus/Rich man that provides insight to a sort of purgatory is a MADE UP STORY. So, there never was an actual Abraham's Bosom!!


Are you telling me what you have done in your life equals to the great achievements what Moses, Joshua, David, the major/minor prophets did?

 

[rlm68]

Welp Dcon, it makes sense now. This guy does not understand what seperates us from God. And what saves us.

No wonder he denies eternal security.. He still thinks he has power to save himself.. just like the OT people did.

hahahaha ok...

I like how the questions and scenarios I put forth you assume I actually believe as Gospel. You obviously have no idea to what I believe. Because I ask something does not mean it reflects upon my beliefs. Assumption is great around here!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do know the story of Lazarus/Rich man that provides insight to a sort of purgatory is a MADE UP STORY. So, there never was an actual Abraham's Bosom!!


Are you telling me what you have done in your life equals to the great achievements what Moses, Joshua, David, the major/minor prophets did?

Lol

I could not sin from this day until the day I die, I would still deserve hell.

You seem to think God grades on a scale. News flash. Moses and all those men woudl have died in hell if not for christ. Moses did not even live up to the standard he himself through God demands all the people were to live, he failed to.

Only one man fulfilled the law. Seems you think otherwise.

I suggest you take your focus of men, and place it where it needs to be, on Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hahahaha ok...

I like how the questions and scenarios I put forth you assume I actually believe as Gospel. You obviously have no idea to what I believe. Because I ask something does not mean it reflects upon my beliefs. Assumption is great around here!!

I think we all prety much know what you believe. And we know where you place your faith.
Yet non of that matters,

When you have to lower yourself to attack people. It usually means your in desperation mode. Because you can not respond to what we are saying,, so you lower yourself to childish attacks.

 

[rlm68]

Lol

I could not sin from this day until the day I die, I would still deserve hell.

You seem to think God grades on a scale. News flash. Moses and all those men woudl have died in hell if not for christ. Moses did not even live up to the standard he himself through God demands all the people were to live, he failed to.

Only one man fulfilled the law. Seems you think otherwise.

I suggest you take your focus of men, and place it where it needs to be, on Christ.

I am not focused on the people of the O.T., I am focused knowing God is the SAME yesterday, today, and forever.

 

[rlm68]

I think we all prety much know what you believe. And we know where you place your faith.
Yet non of that matters,

When you have to lower yourself to attack people. It usually means your in desperation mode. Because you can not respond to what we are saying,, so you lower yourself to childish attacks.

I am attacking your SEEKER FRIENDLY gospel indeed, but I am not attacking YOU!!

 

[John146]

The same thing that happens to you when you sin.

Although, all it took was one sin, in fact, we were dead to God the moment we were born being a child of Adam.

Each sin we commit does not make us MORE worthy of hell.. If one man has 1 death sentence and one has 500. Does it matter, when judgment day comes, they will both die.

Unless their sin is atoned for. Which only one atonment counts, and that atonement is Christ.

The OT states a suffering servant will come and take the sin of his people. Which included them.

Abraham was saved because he had faith (gen 15 with Rom 4)

David was called a man after gods heart BEFORE he commited all those sins, and before he wrote the psalm admitting sacriice and burnt offering God did not desire.

Many Many people were saved before the law was given, before the law was made, God did not make it HARDER for Isreal then the people before. And much harder than us..

Salvation has always been by grace.

Let me see if I understand you correctly. If one of those Jews transgressed the law, which is sin, the only atonement that could forgive their transgression is that of Christ? If that Jew died in their transgressions, what happened to them? What was the purpose of the sacrificial system?

 

[GodsGrace101]

I am removing the fact Christ showed up onto the scene period. And I am claiming from Moses to the prophets whom God used mightily would have been saved in the situation they were in even if there was no Christ ever. Those men clearly were saved. Even God had Michael take the bones of Moses from the Adversary so they could not be used improperly. If there never was a Jesus (Yeshua), these men/women would have still made it heaven. Therefore, they were saved!!

These men you speak of were saved by FAITH...not by following the law.
The Israelites promised God they would obey Him when He gave the 10 Commandments in the Sinai.
Did they obey? No. They were not able to obey because they lacked the power.

Haven't you read Hebrews 11?

You should study the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant....
The law was not abolished and we're still to obey God's law..HOWEVER, it does us no good at all if we obey the law BUT do not have faith in God.

Is an unbeliever that obeys the 10 commandments saved??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not focused on the people of the O.T., I am focused knowing God is the SAME yesterday, today, and forever.

Yes he was, is and will forever be,

So by this TRUTH

I am saved the same way every man woman and child has been saved since the begining of the fall. Because God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow.

But if you believed this, You would not be saying moses was saved different than I am.