E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Seeker friendly? Can you explain?
Or is this just another attack based on lack of knowledge about what we believe?
Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine
- Thread starter delirious
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Or is this just another attack based on lack of knowledge about what we believe?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Really?
Gal 3: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed iseveryone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [d]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed (Christ) should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
If you can not understand this.. Then I am not sure I can help you. Paul laid it all out right here. This goes for OT saints as well as new testament saints. The law could NEVER MAKE ANYONE RIGHTEOUS.
Wrong.....therefore by the deeds of the law shall NO FLESH be justified in his sight...that which deems GUILT and condemns (the LAW) saved no one....
I'm well aware of those verses. Answer this questions.
1. What happened to the Jew under the OT law who died in their transgressions and did not make the proper atonement sacrifice?
2. What was the purpose of the sacrificial system?
I agree......hilariously tragic.....how they embrace for life that which condemns as guilty with the punishment being death.........
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
1 If they were saved, they went to paradise, If, not, they went to hades. The blood of bulls and goats NEVER TOOK AWAY SINS. Never means never period
2. What was the purpose?
Gal 3. What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our [g]tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Jesus was called the lamb of God for a reason. The sacriicial lamb of the OT was a SYMBOL of the true lamb who would take all the sin of the world. Including there own.
If jesus did nto die Thos OT sacrifices would have never taken anyones sin, they woudl have all died in their sin.
God gave them the law. They failed in keeping the law so God added the sacrificial system to forgive their transgressions. If an OT Jew under the law failed to obey the law, they were cut off from Israel and died in their sins.
If they were saved? How were they saved? If they didn't keep the law and failed to provide a sacrifice, could they be "saved."
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Smh
God gave the sacrificial system at the same time he gave the law.. Not because they failed at keeping it. The Whole law system was used to be a tutor to lead them to christ.
When they were in babylonian captivity, There was no temple. There was no sacrificial system. There was no sacrifices made for many years. Are all those people lost?
How were they saved? BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.
Just like I was.. and everyone has been for the last 6000 or so years.
“You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.Malachi 3:13-18
He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:6-13
BELIEVERS ARE JUSTIFIED AND RECEIVED POWER THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT...
...in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.Romans 8:4-8
He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:6-13
BELIEVERS ARE JUSTIFIED AND RECEIVED POWER THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT...
...in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.Romans 8:4-8
If a Jew ignored the law, made no sacrifice for his transgression but had faith, he was "saved." Had faith in what?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Ask King david, He said plainly sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire. He did not give a sacrifice for his sins, Is he lost? Daniel or ano of the saved jews in babylon could not make sacrifice, are they lost in their sins?
The author of hebrews said the blood of bulls and goats NEVER took away sin. Did the author lie?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I completely agree that these men were indeed saved by their FAITH in our God!!
However, the OSAS people think semantics is a must and they were not saved until Christ died for ALL SINS.
But I am in agreeance with your assessment of them being saved by their FAITH!!
I am not claiming Moses was saved any different than you are. You, Moses, all of us are saved because of our FAITH and TRUST in God. Moses' faith in God is no different than our faith in God. We are saved the same way!!
However, the blood of bulls and goats could forgive sins.
Read Leviticus 4.
Those animal sacrifices could forgive sins. Those sacrifices covered their sin temporarily. They could never take them away.
Exodus 34:8 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Paul also said he was blameless under the law.
Abraham was definitely not "looking forward to the cross." He believed God at His word about his seed being numerous.
This is why I believe your logic is circular.
Moses, under the LAW was saved by his FAITH in God!!
I, under GRACE am saved by my FAITH in God!!
It does not matter LAW or GRACE, our FAITH in God is all that matters!!
Faith in the God of Israel or faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ? There's a difference.
I don't understand...
It seems that EG is saying that they were saved but not by the law.
If this is not what he's saying and you're right,,,it would mean that everyone was lost before Jesus death.
I don't hear anyone here saying this...
And I don't agree with eternal security but am having difficulty understanding why that has anything to do with pre-Jesus.
(maybe I shouldn't be here if I don't understand!)