Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

[rlm68]

Faith in the God of Israel or faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ? There's a difference.

I believe in the ONENESS with triune manifestations. So to me, the God of Israel and Christ are ONE and the SAME!!

 

[GodsGrace101]

Faith in the God of Israel or faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ? There's a difference.

What's the difference?
God in the O.T. is different from God in the N.T.?

 

[GodsGrace101]

What did Abraham have faith in? How about king david?

You and rim68 seem to be saying the same thing!
What's the difference?

 

[rlm68]

What's the difference?
God in the O.T. is different from God in the N.T.?

It's funny to read people think they're different LOL

In John, Christ said He was before Abram and He was the I AM. This I AM is the same person in Genesis who spoke to Moses in the form of a burning bush. Same God with proof of being in both the Old and New Testaments!!

 

[GodsGrace101]

BY YOUR WORDS SHALT thou be JUDGED JESUS said......PETER denied the LORD 3 times and EVEN cussed in the process....did he lose salvation?.....TELL US or point us to where he LOST salvation and then REGAINED IT....OOOOOPSSSS you guys teach that it cannot be regained per Hebrews out of context....

D, again, I NEVER said Peter lost his salvation.
I said the opposite and explained why.
He negated knowing Jesus due to fear,,,in his heart he was sorry.
His sorrow showed he loved Jesus with his heart. THIS is what counts.

 

[John146]

What's the difference?
God in the O.T. is different from God in the N.T.?

I agree, but what God did in becoming flesh and dying on the cross for sin was not made known to those OT saints. Not one of them was "looking forward" to the cross. So what did they place their faith in?

 

[Argueless]

“You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.Malachi 3:13-18

He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:6-13

BELIEVERS ARE JUSTIFIED AND RECEIVED POWER THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT...

...in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.Romans 8:4-8

...When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:25-26

...If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. John 15:22

"No more excuses!"

As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain.2 Corinthians 6:1

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Ephesians 5:6

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not claiming Moses was saved any different than you are. You, Moses, all of us are saved because of our FAITH and TRUST in God. Moses' faith in God is no different than our faith in God. We are saved the same way!!

Then what may I ask are you arguing?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

However, the blood of bulls and goats could forgive sins.

Read Leviticus 4.

Those animal sacrifices could forgive sins. Those sacrifices covered their sin temporarily. They could never take them away.

Exodus 34:8 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Paul also said he was blameless under the law.

No they could not.. Or the author of Hebrews lied.

He said NEVER.. I think never means throughout all eternity (he did not just say in the NT they can;t he said never)
The law said alot of things, and they were all given as a symbol of what Christ would do. Thats why the law and all it is is a tutor to lead us to christ.


Again, Your issue is with David, who under law showed he understood. No animal sacrifice could atone for his sin.

Plus you have all in babylon including daniel lost forever.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Abraham was definitely not "looking forward to the cross." He believed God at His word about his seed being numerous.

Abaham had faith in God. He did not have to see the cross. We are saved BY GRACE,, by trusting in God.

You have people earning salvation by the law.. That has never been the gospel. And as paul said, grace and works can not mix, ever.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is why I believe your logic is circular.

Moses, under the LAW was saved by his FAITH in God!!
I, under GRACE am saved by my FAITH in God!!

It does not matter LAW or GRACE, our FAITH in God is all that matters!!

Law and grace are apposed to each other.. Grace is shown INSPITE of the law.

One is by works, the other is by gift.

Thats why your accusation about him is wrong, it is not circular logic. And please stop using these strawmen reasonings.

 

[John146]

No they could not.. Or the author of Hebrews lied.

He said NEVER.. I think never means throughout all eternity (he did not just say in the NT they can;t he said never)
The law said alot of things, and they were all given as a symbol of what Christ would do. Thats why the law and all it is is a tutor to lead us to christ.


Again, Your issue is with David, who under law showed he understood. No animal sacrifice could atone for his sin.

Plus you have all in babylon including daniel lost forever.

Actually the Scripture says never take away sins. Those sacrifices could forgive them but not clear them. There is a difference you know. Their sins were covered. The sins you and I commit are not simply covered, but washed away! Are you denying the passages I posted? There are many more.

 

[John146]

Abaham had faith in God. He did not have to see the cross. We are saved BY GRACE,, by trusting in God.

You have people earning salvation by the law.. That has never been the gospel. And as paul said, grace and works can not mix, ever.

We are saved by putting our trust in the gospel of Jesus Christ, His shed blood. 1 Cor. 15:1-4. None of those OT saints were "saved" by trusting in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. It's not there. Not even Peter or Jesus' disciples knew about the cross. It was a hidden mystery until revealed after the resurrection. Then, Christ could set those captives free. Sleeping in Abraham's bosom is not salvation.

 

[dcontroversal]

D, again, I NEVER said Peter lost his salvation.
I said the opposite and explained why.
He negated knowing Jesus due to fear,,,in his heart he was sorry.
His sorrow showed he loved Jesus with his heart. THIS is what counts.

So as long as you love Jesus in your heart you can deny him 3 times and remained saved right.........cool you're one step closer to the truth Fran

 

[dcontroversal]

Abaham had faith in God. He did not have to see the cross. We are saved BY GRACE,, by trusting in God.

You have people earning salvation by the law.. That has never been the gospel. And as paul said, grace and works can not mix, ever.

AMEN.....it is panning out that he is another one that devalues Christ while placing trust into that which condemns and deems guilty.......

 

[GodsGrace101]

I agree, but what God did in becoming flesh and dying on the cross for sin was not made known to those OT saints. Not one of them was "looking forward" to the cross. So what did they place their faith in?

They placed their faith in GOD.
Just like we do.

God revealed Himself to the Hebrews...it was up to each and every one of them to either accept God or deny Him.

Romans 1:19-20 says that ALL MEN ALWAYS have had a revelation of God and that they could choose to worship Him or not.

It doesn't matter that they didn't know about the cross (although the prophets foresaw it -- they saw a foreshadowing of it, even though it was a mystery that Paul speaks of).

Sacrifices only saved those that had faith. The sacrifice itself saved no one,,,it was only a ritual.
There are verses in the O.T. that say that God does not want sacrifice, but the heart.
Hosea 6:6 is one, there are others.

 

[GodsGrace101]

So as long as you love Jesus in your heart you can deny him 3 times and remained saved right.........cool you're one step closer to the truth Fran

Oh stop.
If I'm denying Him to save my life because I'm a coward...yes, I'm still saved.
If I'm denying Him because I really mean it...no, I'm not saved anymore.

I'm writing to you on that long post...

 

[dcontroversal]

Oh stop.
If I'm denying Him to save my life because I'm a coward...yes, I'm still saved.
If I'm denying Him because I really mean it...no, I'm not saved anymore.

I'm writing to you on that long post...

So now we qualify the word deny right? There is no such animal as found in the bolded above Fran.....saved or lost.....no such thing as saved and then lost it......or does it read...

He that believes on the SON has temporary life based upon his deeds.

 

[rlm68]

Then what may I ask are you arguing?

You are the one who jumped me for claiming these men in the O.T. were saved. I never said the LAW saved them. I just claimed they were saved. And obviously, by their faith in God, they were saved!!

 

[rlm68]

Law and grace are apposed to each other.. Grace is shown INSPITE of the law.

One is by works, the other is by gift.

Thats why your accusation about him is wrong, it is not circular logic. And please stop using these strawmen reasonings.

But that was never my intention or point as you continue to assume.

I only mentioned LAW and GRACE, for the purpose that under both dispensations, FAITH is what actually saved us.