Not Eating Pork (Biblical Reason?)

[Studyman]

what made you think i'm a preacher?

part of my role is to parse sets and identify elements of them that do not meet certain constraints.

test all things. hold on to what is good.​

(1 Thessalonians 5:21)​

​

God saw all that He had made, and it was very good. ​

(Genesis 1:31) ​

​

i shouldn't call unclean what He has declared clean. one doesn't have to be a preacher to know that

I know you have declared pork clean, The Pope declared it clean, Constantine declared it clean. But God never did. At least in the Bible.

Let's consider the scriptures you posted.

1 Thess. 5:
20 Despise not prophesyings.

Lev. 11:
45 For I (The Word Which Became Flesh) am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

Is. 65:
3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me (Don't show me God's Words !!!) ; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.


Is. 66:
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

Matt. 15:
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, (Rebellion, disobedience, lust) murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Matt. 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Matt. 7:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

In your religion, is it OK to "despise the Prophesies"? Can you show me one place in the entire Bible where God "Prophesied" that He would make Pork clean?

He told us of the Messiah, of Him Changing the Priesthood, the age of the Gentiles, but never about reversing His Creation of what is clean, or what is Holy.

If I. trusting only in the Word of God which became Flesh, work to "Prove all things" there is not even a question about His creation.

2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

"God saw all that He had made, and it was very good."

 

[posthuman]

What Jewish custom was Paul talking about: circumcision (Gal. 2:7).

I'll give you a couple.

2 Ch. 18:22 "Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee."

Hosea 1:2 "The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD."

Paul was not fussing at Peter about Peter wanting to become ((re))-circumcised.

2 Ch.18:22 He causes the false prophets to make false prophecies. this is not the same as explicitly bringing a vision from Himself to His own people instructing them to sin, His own spirit deceptively speaking double-talk.

Hosea was not instructed to sin, and Hosea was not falsely told to do something God didn't really mean for him to do.


you're looking for something like Jesus telling His disciples to go out and specifically preach lies, intending for them to disobey Him and tell the truth instead. because that's what your position has God telling Peter to do in Acts 10, get up and sin, using a specific command to do something wicked, intending Peter to disobey His evil command which He spoke presumptuously and insincerely.
you're looking for God Himself lying and enticing His own children to blaspheme, requiring His followers to do what He hates and forbids them to do.

 

[presidente]

God gave man even the creeping things to eat. Then He gave israel dietary laws to make then distinct from the nations.

 

[posthuman]

I know you have declared pork clean

Lying lips are detestable to the LORD
(Proverbs 12:22) ​

 

[dcontroversal]

Lying lips are detestable to the LORD​

(Proverbs 12:22) ​

AMEN.....that is all he has....false accusations and a twisted, false, man made dogma......emphasis upon the word dogma.....

 

[Studyman]

="posthuman, post: 3753981, member: 170505"]Genesis 8:20 -- clean/unclean animals is with reference to sacrifice

Why would God want Noah to eat, or sacrifice an animal to Him which He created as unclean?

Gen. 8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

But He also loaded "unclean" animals. Where is your evidence he didn't know the difference?

 

[posthuman]

AMEN.....that is all he has....false accusations and a twisted, false, man made dogma......emphasis upon the word dogma.....

Now you Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You fools! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also? But give as alms those things that are within, and behold, everything is clean for you. ​

(Luke 11:39-41) ​

​

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
(Romans 8:5) ​

​

Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.​

Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.​

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.​

(Romans 14:13-23)​

maybe i ought to put a note on the fridge reminding me that if dude ever stops in for lunch, don't bring out ham sandwiches or leavened bread...

 

[posthuman]

Where is your evidence he didn't know the difference?

he who conceals hatred has lying lips, ​

and he who spreads slander is a fool. ​

(Proverbs 10:18)​

​

prior to the landing of the ark and the covenant with the earth declared to Noah, he would only have eaten seed-bearing plants ((re: Genesis 1:29)) -- why should i think Genesis 8:20 is with regard to what is acceptable as food? if Noah kept the instructions given to Adam concerning food, no flesh of any animal would have been 'clean' to eat for him.

 

[Studyman]

Lying lips are detestable to the LORD​

(Proverbs 12:22) ​

"i shouldn't call unclean what He has declared clean"

Who is the He? No one in the Bible reversed God's creation of Holy and Clean. The Word of God clearly says, over and over, that pork is unclean.

Are you now denying that you said pork is clean?

Lying lips are detestable to the LORD

 

[LPT]

I agree, isn't Faith believing even if we don't see?

I was fully convinced God is true some 27 years ago now. And one thing I found regarding the clean and unclean issue is the amount of time I am thinking about God and His Word throughout the week when we shop, when we cook and eat.

Living among religious nations which disregard much of God's creation makes it sometimes difficult to keep my mind in check. What a blessing it is to be reminded about God in my own mind even in a shopping center. At first it was difficult, but now it is a wonderful blessing which helps us in this evil time.

Surely the wisdom of God surpasses all human knowledge.

Indeed surely knowing the known, the unknown and foreknown knowledge is something to be behold.
Speaking on the clean and unclean animals mentioned in the bible, it is not written out exactly as too why and I probably couldn't give reasonable answer to it but if I was to give one about the swine maybe just knowing this below might be enough that God not wanting to see humans eating swine on the account of knowing, who knows lol...

Mark 5
11Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand); and were choked in the sea.

 

[Hevosmies]

I know you have declared pork clean, The Pope declared it clean, Constantine declared it clean. But God never did. At least in the Bible.

Let's consider the scriptures you posted.

1 Thess. 5:
20 Despise not prophesyings.

Lev. 11:
45 For I (The Word Which Became Flesh) am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

Is. 65:
3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me (Don't show me God's Words !!!) ; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.


Is. 66:
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

Matt. 15:
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, (Rebellion, disobedience, lust) murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Matt. 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Matt. 7:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

In your religion, is it OK to "despise the Prophesies"? Can you show me one place in the entire Bible where God "Prophesied" that He would make Pork clean?

He told us of the Messiah, of Him Changing the Priesthood, the age of the Gentiles, but never about reversing His Creation of what is clean, or what is Holy.

If I. trusting only in the Word of God which became Flesh, work to "Prove all things" there is not even a question about His creation.

2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

"God saw all that He had made, and it was very good."

Here we have a classical example of what happens when you dont rightly divide the word of truth.
You end up making a mess out of the Bible.

 

[garee]

Peter is not speaking of shadows, but realities - types and figures.

Shadows are types and figures used in parables to hide the unseen spiritual understanding from those who walk by sight like those below.

They made Jesus into a Circus Seal do a trick and then we will believe

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not "believe."

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

 

[LPT]

Indeed surely knowing the known, the unknown and foreknown knowledge is something to be behold.
Speaking on the clean and unclean animals mentioned in the bible, it is not written out exactly as too why and I probably couldn't give reasonable answer to it but if I was to give one about the swine maybe just knowing this below might be enough that God not wanting to see humans eating swine on the account of knowing, who knows lol...

Mark 5
11Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand); and were choked in the sea.

I fixed the 400 yr old typo in the above verse 13 but on second thought why here's the verse as it is. lol
The KJV is my go too but I giggled over this typo...

Mark 5
13And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

 

[Deade]

Paul was not fussing at Peter about Peter wanting to become ((re))-circumcised.

2 Ch.18:22 He causes the false prophets to make false prophecies. this is not the same as explicitly bringing a vision from Himself to His own people instructing them to sin, His own spirit deceptively speaking double-talk.

Hosea was not instructed to sin, and Hosea was not falsely told to do something God didn't really mean for him to do.


you're looking for something like Jesus telling His disciples to go out and specifically preach lies, intending for them to disobey Him and tell the truth instead. because that's what your position has God telling Peter to do in Acts 10, get up and sin, using a specific command to do something wicked, intending Peter to disobey His evil command which He spoke presumptuously and insincerely.
you're looking for God Himself lying and enticing His own children to blaspheme, requiring His followers to do what He hates and forbids them to do.

Wow! First we were talking of a dietary ordinance. Hardly anything to get worked up over. Then out come words like blaspheme, sin and evil. Then resulting of accusing me of false prophecy and lying. I guess you don't want a civil discussion. I won't lower myself to your mindset. I'm am off this thread.

 

[Studyman]

Now you Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You fools! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also? But give as alms those things that are within, and behold, everything is clean for you. ​

(Luke 11:39-41) ​

​

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.​

(Romans 8:5) ​

​

Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.​

Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.​

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.​

(Romans 14:13-23)​

maybe i ought to put a note on the fridge reminding me that if dude ever stops in for lunch, don't bring out ham sandwiches or leavened bread...

I would ask the obvious question, "Is the Word of God Spiritual or Fleshy"? Then I would post His Answer.

John 6:
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

64 But there are some of you that believe not.

Then I would post HIS WORD's.

Lev. 11:
45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy. (Did the Christ consider Pork clean?)
46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

I used to follow my own lusts, but now I let this Lord guide my footsteps.

I don't believe your new age translation reflects the message of so many other translations.

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Paul also said in this chapter written for the weak in faith: "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."

Who was it that created Pork and deemed it unclean in the first place? Man, or was it the Christ that created all things?

The translation you used completely alters the point of the sentence.


I would decline in the willful disregard to the Word of God, and would politely refuse if, while at your house, I was offered a ham sandwich, or a bowl of maggots, or sautéed tape worms or a golden dart frog or nightshade, etc.. I am quite sure God didn't make "ALL THINGS" clean for food as Constantine, and now you preach, rather, you are being tricked into twisting His Word's, to promote the religious lifestyle of the religions of the land.. However, I have the freedom in Christ to partake of leavened bread for 357 days of the year. I'm not sure why you would reference this.

The Christ also had written centuries ago.

Jer. 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.

I can't help but wonder if you have become the "Them" described herein.

 

[Studyman]

he who conceals hatred has lying lips, ​

and he who spreads slander is a fool. ​

(Proverbs 10:18)​

​

prior to the landing of the ark and the covenant with the earth declared to Noah, he would only have eaten seed-bearing plants ((re: Genesis 1:29)) -- why should i think Genesis 8:20 is with regard to what is acceptable as food? if Noah kept the instructions given to Adam concerning food, no flesh of any animal would have been 'clean' to eat for him.

Again, Jesus clearly told both you and I that we, "Man", shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD of God. This seems to be almost impossible for you to grasp. But when a person considers EVERY thing ever spoken in the entire Bible about "Swine", even a 5 year old would "SEE" that a "Temple of God" should resist the lust to partake in it even if the Nations we are Scattered into, and the religions therein, eat it for breakfast lunch and dinner.

So I know it is a common tradition of religious man to transgress God's Commandments and to lust after those things which He said not to lust after.

5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

1 John 2:
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

James 4:
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.


6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

But we are to "put on" the WHOLE ARMOR of God, not just verse shop until we find a scripture which can be twisted to promote, defend or justify a religious tradition of the religions of the land.

Shouldn't it be about what God says?

 

[1ofthem]

Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't take that into consideration that leaving out the link may appear as if I'm free handing and not a properly linked quote from a article. It wasn't my intention to be obstinate.

My girlfriend was looking at our conversation and agreed it's proper to use http// to sentences of other sources to ensure people don't assume the words are my own but she also said she could not see your link back to the website in your post that mentioned DUCK DUCK GO. I told her to Hoover the pointer over the word and click it, she said she felt stupid for not knowing that was a link to another site. She had always thought the high lightened color words was just that. people do that a lot on forums making colorful words etc. I said don't feel stupid not everybody is computer swavy and knows all the little ways to link stuff.

I apologize for being rude to you about your own thoughts about swine, I had read that pigs do not build up toxins in their body because of a lack of sweat glans and I surely could of said my point alittle more civil.

Yeah, and at the risk of making myself look like an airhead again, on here, I seriously didn't know that was a link to an article...

I graduated from college in 03, and at that time it was proper to use the http// address to link things. I only use a computer mainly for work and just never knew that blue words or sentences in a post could be a link. I thought it was just something they were highlighting or bringing emphasis to...lol... but at least I learned something in this thread.

I'm also glad you made it clear about the sweat glands. I was getting ready to swear off on pork and not because I thought it was a sin, but because I thought they peed through their pores...

Thanksgiving would have been really gloomy with only the brown sugar and pineapples and no ham...LOL

 

[Studyman]

Indeed surely knowing the known, the unknown and foreknown knowledge is something to be behold.
Speaking on the clean and unclean animals mentioned in the bible, it is not written out exactly as too why and I probably couldn't give reasonable answer to it but if I was to give one about the swine maybe just knowing this below might be enough that God not wanting to see humans eating swine on the account of knowing, who knows lol...

Mark 5
11Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand); and were choked in the sea.

Yes,

The Christ most certainly considered it unclean. I'm sure the Word of God which became Flesh had a good reason for the instruction. We have fun with it in our church.

"My name is studyman and I am a Porkaholic. I've been clean for 27 years. LOL.

 

[LPT]

Yeah, and at the risk of making myself look like an airhead again, on here, I seriously didn't know that was a link to an article...

I graduated from college in 03, and at that time it was proper to use the http// address to link things. I only use a computer mainly for work and just never knew that blue words or sentences in a post could be a link. I thought it was just something they were highlighting or bringing emphasis to...lol... but at least I learned something in this thread.

I'm also glad you made it clear about the sweat glands. I was getting ready to swear off on pork and not because I thought it was a sin, but because I thought they peed through their pores...

Thanksgiving would have been really gloomy with only the brown sugar and pineapples and no ham...LOL

Lol it's quite ok sweetie no person is perfect, good to learn every day,
I've known of it for some time now but still I forget that they may be a link instead of highlighted words, I guess I'm getting old hehe..

From what I've learned pigs are not completely sweat gland less, they do have some but they are not very useful for tempature control probably reason why they wallow around in the mud lol.

 

[posthuman]

Wow! First we were talking of a dietary ordinance. Hardly anything to get worked up over. Then out come words like blaspheme, sin and evil. Then resulting of accusing me of false prophecy and lying. I guess you don't want a civil discussion. I won't lower myself to your mindset. I'm am off this thread.

i haven't accused you of false prophecy and/or lying in the least bit. you obviously do not comprehend what i'm saying.
go read it again.

i'll spell it out, it is very simple:

if you hold the position that God considered it sinful for Cephas to kill and eat an 'unclean' animal, then you have the position that God is specifically commanding Peter to sin three times in a row in Acts 10.

saying 'the dream is not meant to be taken literally' doesn't make the theological problem go away. whether in spirit or in the corporeal, your position has God explicitly ordering His own disciple to disobey Him, three times in a row, and three times in a row rebuking him for being righteous.

your position about this passage is unsupportable bunk, to be blunt. your position is accusing God of evil, making Him out to be a tempter and a deceiver and a liar.